jsd Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 48 minutes ago, Chief Guns said: I am the biggest BD fan around. Bloo deserved it last year. Both had gold medal shows. Crown had a gold medal show imo. Of course i was rooting for BD, but Bloo won fair and square. They out performed BD and Crown on finals night plain and simple. Oh, I totally agree. I still think that BD had the total package and that Crown was incredibly inventive and forward thinking, but last year belonged to Bluecoats. With that said, it doesn't mean that BD and Crown didn't get shafted last year. The argument can be made that they did. And, it doesn't change the fact that they caught "lightning in a bottle" last year and tried to re-brand and re-package it under a different guise this year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Just now, Brass Lover said: Explain to me then how Crown's show doesn't work. What does "working" mean to you? If I have to explain it, then it doesn't matter. I will ask, say, 200 other DCP posters to tell you why it doesn't work. The second half lags badly and has all season. The yardline idea is clumsy and has been done before, and doesn't even help with the concept. But I know that no matter what I or 200 other DCP posters say won't change your opinion. You have the right to yours and we have the right to ours. Honestly if you think this Crown show is at least as good as Bluecoats, then we are simply not going to agree on much of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudding Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Bluecoats are only getting shafted in GE (both music and visual) and music repertoire. They absolutely deserve their low visual scores, since they're extremely dirty visually. Additionally, while I wouldn't call it "extremely", they are still dirty musically as well. In terms of execution, they are clearly the dirtiest of the top four corps. However, professional judges at this level of activity should be able to see past dirt to repertoire, especially once the group breaks Box Five. Their GE repertoire numbers should be at least 96s, their brass repertoire numbers should be at least 94 (rhythmic and timing demands are STILL not getting recognized), their Music Analysis repertoire numbers should be at least 95 (environmental demands far superior to the 3 in front of them), and their percussion repertoire should be at least 96 (widest battery intervals I've ever seen, as well as freaking One Study, One Summary in the front ensemble). Execution scores I will absolutely concede, but it is criminal how they are being under-recognized in demand. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsd Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 43 minutes ago, MyKids#1Fan said: Wow. Wow, what? If you would like to dispute any assertion I have of Bluecoats show from last year, please do. I am capable of having a civilized dialogue. Did you miss the part where I wrote that the show was a blast to watch? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, jsd said: Oh, I totally agree. I still think that BD had the total package and that Crown was incredibly inventive and forward thinking, but last year belonged to Bluecoats. With that said, it doesn't mean that BD and Crown didn't get shafted last year. The argument can be made that they did. And, it doesn't change the fact that they caught "lightning in a bottle" last year and tried to re-brand and re-package it under a different guise this year. 10 years from now, what will we be saying about Bluecoats? I often wonder about this. Blue Devils could be said to have been rebranding and repackaging their concept for at least a decade. Kudos to them, they found something that really worked for them and kept reinventing it year after year to win medal after medal. We have all wondered if Bluecoats style and direction is a gimmick, but it's only a gimmick because they haven't been doing it, and winning with it, for a decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NakedEye Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Downside Up was a brillant design. It was so clever, perfectly paced, perfectly seasoned and full of fresh ideas, like a new approach to entrances and exits from constantly moving "backstage" ramps. Everything worked. Everything fit. Everything flowed effortlessly. In contrast, I find Jagged Line to feel more forced. The whole Fosse thing still has me scratching my head. The focus on the bowlers and suspenders doesn't seem to have a real necessity, other than just being something to do - a design contrivance. The music is generally more aggressive than what Fosse choreographed to, and it is combined with the op-art flag designs for a rather uncomfortable stew of conflicting ideas. If it was cleaner it might communicate better, but they are still struggling with the dance moves from the moment they first appear from under the prop. Not quite together. Not quite fluid. Not quite natural. It looks like a lot of effort. In a general sense, the show is as entertaining and as fun as can be, but the whole package doesn't seem to quite work as seamlessly as 2016. When facing very successful programs in design and performance from both SCV and BD, and a slightly weaker Crown, who is executing better and more cleanly, there is not necessarily a lot of room to move up. None of this, however makes it any less of a blast to enjoy. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudding Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 On the topic of SCV, I feel that their show is just so completely unremarkable. They have many nice, little moments, in between extended periods of either percussion features, small brass features, or nothing. They don't build to any particular climax, and the pacing of the show is disjointed (again, because of the many interludes). They look nice, and they have some nice visual effects (such as the four-person snake pods), but every time I watch their show I find myself wanting more. Their props are much-vaunted this year, but I personally don't find them to be that interesting; after a few minutes, they actually become an eyesore for me. As someone else mentioned in a different thread, it almost comes as a relief when the props get turned around to reveal the solid black. I like SCV, and I want them to be successful, but I don't think that this should be the show that wins for them. I felt that Force of Nature, Scheherazade, and Les Mis were all better designs than this show. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Lover Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, MikeRapp said: If I have to explain it, then it doesn't matter. I will ask, say, 200 other DCP posters to tell you why it doesn't work. The second half lags badly and has all season. The yardline idea is clumsy and has been done before, and doesn't even help with the concept. But I know that no matter what I or 200 other DCP posters say won't change your opinion. You have the right to yours and we have the right to ours. Honestly if you think this Crown show is at least as good as Bluecoats, then we are simply not going to agree on much of anything. Ok then. Then why do you think Crown is above Bluecoats in GE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsd Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Just now, MikeRapp said: 10 years from now, what will we be saying about Bluecoats? I often wonder about this. Blue Devils could be said to have been rebranding and repackaging their concept for at least a decade. Kudos to them, they found something that really worked for them and kept reinventing it year after year to win medal after medal. We have all wondered if Bluecoats style and direction is a gimmick, but it's only a gimmick because they haven't been doing it, and winning with it, for a decade. Depends on how you define re-packaging and re-branding, as well as how you define stylistic choices in programming. BD ABSOLUTELY has a very defined style, and they have utilized it for years. But, did last year's show look anything like the product they have on the field this year? Not really. Now evaluate Bluecoats last year and this year. Same show, different theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, pudding said: On the topic of SCV, I feel that their show is just so completely unremarkable. They have many nice, little moments, in between extended periods of either percussion features, small brass features, or nothing. They don't build to any particular climax, and the pacing of the show is disjointed (again, because of the many interludes). They look nice, and they have some nice visual effects (such as the four-person snake pods), but every time I watch their show I find myself wanting more. Their props are much-vaunted this year, but I personally don't find them to be that interesting; after a few minutes, they actually become an eyesore for me. As someone else mentioned in a different thread, it almost comes as a relief when the props get turned around to reveal the solid black. I like SCV, and I want them to be successful, but I don't think that this should be the show that wins for them. I felt that Force of Nature, Scheherazade, and Les Mis were all better designs than this show. The changes they put in at Nashville turned the corner for me. They really made the show shine. I sat between a lot of disparate people. Huge crown fans behind me, a phantom alum next to me and in front, and a lot of others. Few of them really knew what to expect from SCV and at the end of the night everyone was saying there were a lot of awesome shows but SCV was the winner. The show is a little ponderous, but that is sort of SCV. My favorite show isn't SCV but I think it deserves the gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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