MikeBD Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 19 minutes ago, pudding said: Bluecoats are only getting shafted in GE (both music and visual) and music repertoire. They absolutely deserve their low visual scores, since they're extremely dirty visually. Additionally, while I wouldn't call it "extremely", they are still dirty musically as well. In terms of execution, they are clearly the dirtiest of the top four corps. However, professional judges at this level of activity should be able to see past dirt to repertoire, especially once the group breaks Box Five. Their GE repertoire numbers should be at least 96s, their brass repertoire numbers should be at least 94 (rhythmic and timing demands are STILL not getting recognized), their Music Analysis repertoire numbers should be at least 95 (environmental demands far superior to the 3 in front of them), and their percussion repertoire should be at least 96 (widest battery intervals I've ever seen, as well as freaking One Study, One Summary in the front ensemble). Execution scores I will absolutely concede, but it is criminal how they are being under-recognized in demand. I'm sorry but I really don't see this incredible demand you guys see. Their drill is not harder than other corps. They just use a big prop right in the middle and they use different dance steps. The coats fans seem to think that they are always moving and that just isn't true. Last year was great and TILT was their best show ever IMHO. This year the way they use their bowler hats is pretty lame. You can tell they keep trying to incorporate the hats but they are reaching. Also their uniforms flat out suck this year. They provide nothing to the show. I always thought CC had the worst unis but coats are giving them a run for their money this year. Some of you guys are right though. The coats shouldn't only be a point ahead of the cavies. The cavies should be beating them. Tougher drill and quite frankly performed better. I have loved the coats for years but just because you are different doesn't mean it's better. As for all the negative comments towards the devils. I honestly feel not one other corp could perform their ballad, their opening two minutes and their finale. Anyone that thinks that opening drill is easy is nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terri Schehr Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) This has become nothing but a bash fest on several fronts. I wish there was a way to ignore an entire thread, Edited August 2, 2017 by Terri Schehr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudding Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 1 minute ago, kinetic inferno11 said: Sorry that I disagree with this. Clearly if this were the Case, they would've lost last year too. But no, they won GE by a long shot. So I don't think music selections really have anything to do with it. Honestly after reading the program notes for this show and Crown's, Crown's still makes more sense than "Jagged Line." At the end of the day it's still one of the most entertaining shows of the year, but I don't think entertainment is a justifying reason for why a group should be in first. Clearly there isn't judges biased because they've been 4th since before SA. It isn't anything to do with the show, just performance achievement. I've been pretty consistent, I think, in saying that they absolutely deserve their low(-ish) execution numbers. What bothers me is their under-recognition in terms of repertoire and design. Brass judges only rewarding long tone chords or double-tonguing while ignoring cross-field hocket rhythms; percussion judges rewarding the incredibly lazy front ensemble writing technique of throwing octaves on the outside mallets in an inner mallet 16th note passage over the legendarily intricate One Study, One Summary; Music Analysis judges rewarding singing Broadway over playing Zappa. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terri Schehr Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, pudding said: I've been pretty consistent, I think, in saying that they absolutely deserve their low(-ish) execution numbers. What bothers me is their under-recognition in terms of repertoire and design. Brass judges only rewarding long tone chords or double-tonguing while ignoring cross-field hocket rhythms; percussion judges rewarding the incredibly lazy front ensemble writing technique of throwing octaves on the outside mallets in an inner mallet 16th note passage over the legendarily intricate One Study, One Summary; Music Analysis judges rewarding singing Broadway over playing Zappa. I'm definitely not saying they shouldn't be 4th but to completely disregard the environmental demand of this show.....it's crazy. Edited August 2, 2017 by Terri Schehr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Lover Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Threads like this are why I wish we had judges tapes released along with scores. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBD Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Terri Schehr said: I'm definitely not saying they shouldn't be 4th but to completely disregard the environmental demand of this show.....it's crazy. I really like your posts but their demand is no tougher than other corps. It's a myth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinetic inferno11 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 1 minute ago, pudding said: I've been pretty consistent, I think, in saying that they absolutely deserve their low(-ish) execution numbers. What bothers me is their under-recognition in terms of repertoire and design. Brass judges only rewarding long tone chords or double-tonguing while ignoring cross-field hocket rhythms; percussion judges rewarding the incredibly lazy front ensemble writing technique of throwing octaves on the outside mallets in an inner mallet 16th note passage over the legendarily intricate One Study, One Summary; Music Analysis judges rewarding singing Broadway over playing Zappa. This seems like the same argument as to why BD is beating SCV (with the whole BD is executing easier stuff better). I think Bluecoats just feature their trumpet section and give them a majority of the technical passages whereas Crown features many sections and puts their technicality on display. Bluecoats have their fair share of chords and double tonguing too. I'm not saying they don't deserve recognition for what they're doing, but the other corps above them have just as hard of books and their own challenges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terri Schehr Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 1 minute ago, MikeBD said: I really like your posts but their demand is no tougher than other corps. It's a myth. You left out "in your opinion". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinetic inferno11 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) Also how is Bluecoat's staging harder than others? When I saw them in Nashville I never saw anything too spread out except the ending. SCV in their ballad seemed to be the farthest spread out. It seems most of Bluecoat's environment is created by electronics. Edited August 2, 2017 by kinetic inferno11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudding Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, MikeBD said: I'm sorry but I really don't see this incredible demand you guys see. Their drill is not harder than other corps. They just use a big prop right in the middle and they use different dance steps. The coats fans seem to think that they are always moving and that just isn't true. Last year was great and TILT was their best show ever IMHO. This year the way they use their bowler hats is pretty lame. You can tell they keep trying to incorporate the hats but they are reaching. Also their uniforms flat out suck this year. They provide nothing to the show. I always thought CC had the worst unis but coats are giving them a run for their money this year. Some of you guys are right though. The coats shouldn't only be a point ahead of the cavies. The cavies should be beating them. Tougher drill and quite frankly performed better. I have loved the coats for years but just because you are different doesn't mean it's better. As for all the negative comments towards the devils. I honestly feel not one other corp could perform their ballad, their opening two minutes and their finale. Anyone that thinks that opening drill is easy is nuts. If you don't see the demand then you are blind. Their drill is comparable to other corps, but as we all know drill doesn't mean anything anymore. In terms of visual design, they have the most cohesion in theme (Fosse-esque dance), just like 2014 BD had their Fellini-esque visual program. To reduce that to "just using a big prop and different dance steps" in incredibly disingenuous. They move far more than your Blue Devils, who literally stand still to play Bumblebee as well as most of their huge hits (yes, I watched, I'm not simply regurgitating the park and bark hate). Their usage of the hats ties in with their Fosse choreography, and their uniforms are nods to 50s and 60s dance fashion. Obvious hater/homer is obvious. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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