swmstom

Madison Scouts 2018

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Careful the things you say, children will listen. 

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On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 10:20 PM, MikeD said:

The corps is the staff, admin and the members all rolled together. You really think the members will separate the complaints out as you describe? They are living and breathing their show all season long. IMO the "its all about the staff not the members" stuff is complainers trying to make themselves feel better. 

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You are correct IMO. It may be that the MMs are not responsible for what the staff or Admin. do BUT they have bought into a program and you punch one you punch all. It's always been like that. Those who say it's not about the kids may be right BUT MMs will not look at it that way. I know this 1st hand and for decades and  IMO they may not have spent time nurturing, mentoring, teaching, or an inside seat with the culture.

I hear exactly what you are saying and you are right. This also has nothing to do with placements or show designs/ When you buy in as a member most great members buy in 100%

. Members do not separate, well they did this and we did that. That's almost as bad as saying we were great as a drummer or horn BUT the guard sucked. It's one

Edited by GUARDLING
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I don't see how drum corps message boards should or are any different than say a collegiate sports message board. You're basically dealing with same age range once you get to elite corps. Why do we have to be so sensitive? I would never specifically call out the members but will certainly call out staff. 

 I'm an Auburn fan and and alum. If the head coach and his staff are not putting the players in the best position to succeed..I will call them out. If a player sees it...sorry. But I won't lose sleep over it. 

With Scouts, it starts at the top. If that fails, then the rest fails. Changes need to happen to get Scouts back to competing with the eltes. If someone gets offended...sorry, not sorry. Toughen up. Otherwise we can just keep treading water, talking about the good food they ate and how nice the busses were...and begin hoping to just remain in Top 17 while they everyone passes by.

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2 minutes ago, swmstom said:

I don't see how drum corps message boards should or are any different than say a collegiate sports message board. You're basically dealing with same age range once you get to elite corps. Why do we have to be so sensitive? I would never specifically call out the members but will certainly call out staff. 

 I'm an Auburn fan and and alum. If the head coach and his staff are not putting the players in the best position to succeed..I will call them out. If a player sees it...sorry. But I won't lose sleep over it. 

With Scouts, it starts at the top. If that fails, then the rest fails. Changes need to happen to get Scouts back to competing with the eltes. If someone gets offended...sorry, not sorry. Toughen up. Otherwise we can just keep treading water, talking about the good food they ate and how nice the busses were...and begin hoping to just remain in Top 17 while they everyone passes by.

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You're right, there is no difference BUT it doesn't make it right but more importantly, it doesn't help 1 bit. You are also right about it starts at the top. I will say it again as I have before. There have been some great staff, directors, MMs etc who have gone through the doors and out the other end. Scouts have to look at WHY have great people left and what is staying behind that might be driving good people off.

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There's no inherent reason Scouts can't come back stronger from a year like this one. Other corps have.

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1 minute ago, N.E. Brigand said:

There's no inherent reason Scouts can't come back stronger from a year like this one. Other corps have.

agree totally. They have to not repeat the same mistakes. AND look back and take an honest hard look. It's been going on a while now.

This activity needs the Scouts

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1 hour ago, MikeD said:

 You know what I meant, and I have no idea why you are attempting to twist this into something I did not remotely imply.

 Well, what you meant, and what you actually posted here with your words, we're two entirely different things, MikeD. You twisted your words, as the words clearly implied that you have marchers, staff, adm. ( you exact words above ) " rolled into one " for the responsibility of 16th place. Thats untrue. The post you replied too above blamed the staff/ mgt. for this.  CLEARLY, just them. You " rolled " the marchers into this sharing of responsibility. Perhaps this was not your intent. But YOU perhaps got " twisted " up in your words.

 So we are clear here... it is my understanding from reading the entire thread that not a single poster has blamed the marchers for any shortfalls this season, of any kind. Do you agree with this assessment ? It is also my assessment that all the comments on this thread for the shortcomings this summer rests entirely and wholly with staff and mgt. Agreed ? Or do you disagree with who is responsible ?  It is also my sense from reading the comments on here so far from posters is that you do not like their assessments of where the blame should lie for Madison's shortcomings this season. Is my assessment correct, or not with this ? It is also my assessment that it was YOU who brought into the discussion the 2018 Madison Scouts marchers as being " rolled into this" with staff and mg for the shortcomings.  Did I read your own words correctly with this ? or not ?  

 If you want to be the first to bring the marchers of the Madison Scouts into this thread in a discussion of the shortfalls for this season, you might have been better served not to have ":rolled them into one " with staff/ mgt, is all I'm saying MikeD.  I did not "twist your words ". I aim for clarification here, not pick a fight with you.. I'm actually on your side in the belief that airing out one's anger with staff/ mgt is not best served here in a public forum ( read my previous comments on this above, if unsure ), but in private, and with the people that can make changes. That said, most marchers are thick skinned, I believe. They can handle criticism... ESPECIALLY... when none of it here on this thread has been directed to them in the least by anyone on here so far, MikeD.  As such, the 2018 Madison Scouts marchers should not be " rolled into this " discussion for the first time here now at all, imo... except to perhaps state very clearly that they have no blame at all for any 2018 Madison Scouts shortcomings. Every one on here so far seems to agree the shortcomings rests squarely with staff/ mgt, MikeD. Thus, what is said here in criticism is not directed towards them at all. I think the Scouts 2018 marchers are smart enough to read the comments posted on here and  understand this too

Edited by BRASSO
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10 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 Well, what you meant, and what you actually posted here with your words, we're two entirely different things, MikeD. You twisted your words, as the words clearly implied that you have marchers, staff, adm. ( you exact words above ) " rolled into one " for the responsibility of 16th place. Thats untrue. The post you replied too above blamed the staff/ mgt. for this.  CLEARLY, just them. You " rolled " the marchers into this sharing of responsibility. Perhaps this was not your intent. But YOU perhaps got " twisted " up in your words.

 So we are clear here... it is my understanding from reading the entire thread that not a single poster has blamed the marchers for any shortfalls this season, of any kind. Do you agree with this assessment ? It is also my assessment that all the comments on this thread for the shortcomings this summer rests entirely and wholly with staff and mgt. Agreed ? Or do you disagree with who is responsible ?  It is also my sense from reading the comments on here so far from posters is that you do not like their assessments of where the blame should lie for Madison's shortcomings so far. Is my assessment correct, or not with this ? It is also my assessment that it was YOU who brought into the discussion the 2018 Madison Scouts marchers as being " rolled into this" with staff and mg for the shortcomings.  Did I read you own words correctly with this ? or not ?  

 If you want to be the first to bring the marchers of the Madison Scouts into this thread in a discussion of the shortfalls for this season, you might have been better served not to have ":rolled them into one " with staff/ mgt, is all I'm saying MikeD.  I did not "twist your words ". I aim for clarification here, not a fight. I;m actually on your side in the belief that airing out one's anger with staff/ mgt is not best served here in a public forum ( read my previous comments on this above, if unsure ), but in private, and with the people that can make changes. That said, maarchers are thick skinned. They can handle criticism... ESPECIALLY... when none of it here on this thread has been directed to them in the least by anyone on here so far, MikeD.

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Members do not consider themselves a different entity from anything else of their corps. MOST corps are like this. As far as thick shinned marchers, really? there aren't even thick-skinned adults in most threads.lol.. It really is quite easy to twist a post upside down and sideways to fit a narrative I suppose but Mike's post I thought was pretty clear IMO

You are right about airing the laundry, it doesn't do much good

Edited by GUARDLING
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33 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

Members do not consider themselves a different entity from anything else of their corps.

 

Well, thats pure nonsense jjbberish, frankly.

  Staffs don't consider themselves the same " entity " as marchers, nor marchers the same " entity " as staff. Heck, staffers have been known to have been booted out of Corps because they did not know the clear difference and boundaries between the two entities. Adults are not the same entities as youth. They are clearly different " entities ".  Marchers intuitively know they are not the same " entity" as staff/ mgt. Adults however, do sometimes conflate the two. We call these adults a bit confused when they blur those entities in their own minds and/ or experiences.. Bottom line.. nothing and noone in this thread criticises Madison Scouts youthful marchers. The topic is about adult staffers. mgt at the Madison Scouts. We should keep the discussion on that, imo... not bring their marchers into this discussion.

Edited by BRASSO

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14 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

, Well, thats pure nonsense jjbberish... lol

  staffs don't consider themselves the same " entity " as marchers, nor marchers the same " entity " as staff. Heck, staffers have been known to have been booted out of Corps because they did not know the clear difference and boundaries between the two entities.

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.  NM....lol:crazy:

Edited by GUARDLING

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