Enough Judging Conspiracy Theories

[Jeff Ream]

4 minutes ago, DeusExGreenMachina said:

So twelve pages of arguments.  Any other questions about judging?  So called "conspiracies?"

I'll be back in the morning.  Unless I'm banned.

we've have good stuff man. and i tease Stu ( kinda...some days...sorta)

[DeusExGreenMachina]

Just now, Jeff Ream said:

we've have good stuff man. and i tease Stu ( kinda...some days...sorta)

Hah! Thanks Jeff.

[ContraFart]

8 minutes ago, DeusExGreenMachina said:

So twelve pages of arguments.  Any other questions about judging?  So called "conspiracies?"

I'll be back in the morning.  Unless I'm banned.

Well I still have a part of my original question. If all judges are judging from the same sheets and one corps is continually beating another corps in a particular caption, how do you justify a .5 swing in that said caption in a 24 hour period from semis to finals?

Edited August 20, 2017 by ContraFart

[DeusExGreenMachina]

6 hours ago, DeusExGreenMachina said:

Ranks and ratings change for the same judge because they're judging a new caption.  Also, when panels change, numbers will change as you have probably experienced in the past.  It's absolutely unavoidable.

@ContraFart

[Stu]

1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said:

i'll give you a hint...start at the center of the recap, then move to the right, but not all the way over

I looked at all three recaps (Th, Fri, Sat) right of center: CG, MB, and MA, even all the way over to Perc

a) I see nothing where a radical shift changed in rankings at the top (no more than +/- one position in any caption)

b) I also see nothing where an 'archaic design' was placed way ahead of a 'newer artistic design'

c) So far, I see no reason to seek a retirement based on a judge rewarding archaic designs over newer designs.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Stu

[Stu]

14 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

we've have good stuff man. and i tease Stu ( kinda...some days...sorta)

Ya can tease me, just don't tickle me like you do elmo!!!!

[ContraFart]

Just now, DeusExGreenMachina said:

@ContraFart

It doesn't answer my question. I know its explanation that is meant to answer my question, but I don't buy it. Spreads in individual captions can be measured in head to head match ups throughout the season across all judges who judge that particular caption. While there can be personal differences, if corps A beats corps B in 18 out 20 head to head match ups, including prelims and semis, one can reasonably conclude that corps A should beat corps B on finals night. When corps B wins on finals night with a half point jump in that caption, a reasonable thing to do is question the reasoning of that sudden shift. Since it seems to happen to a particular corps more than others, and mainly on finals night, then the conspiracy theories start. 

[Stu]

20 minutes ago, ContraFart said:

Well I still have a part of my original question. If all judges are judging from the same sheets and one corps is continually beating another corps in a particular caption, how do you justify a .5 swing in that said caption in a 24 hour period from semis to finals?

Here is one possible reason: Bad Run.  Also, do not look at raw score from judge to judge or show to show, look at rankings and spread.  These people are human, not robots who act in unison exactly alike.  If a corps fluctuates from 12th to 1st to 6th to 2nd or up 3 points down 5 points up 4 points there is a wacky issue to resolve.  But fluctuations from 2nd to 3rd to 2nd to 1st and up .3 down .5 and up .2 are normal.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Stu

[ContraFart]

Just now, Stu said:

Here is one possible reason: Bad Run.  Also, do not look at raw score from judge to judge or show to show, look at rankings and spread.  These people are human, not robots who act in unison exactly alike.  If a corps fluctuates from 12th to 1st to 6th to 2nd or up 3 points down 5 points up 4 points there is a wacky issue to resolve.  But fluctuations from 2nd to 3rd to 2nd to 1st and up .3 down .5 and up .2 are normal.

How different do you think SCV's guard run was from Friday to Saturday night? If anything Saturday night was better. When you get to that level, there is not much of a difference between a bad run and a good run. 

[Stu]

44 minutes ago, ContraFart said:

How different do you think SCV's guard run was from Friday to Saturday night? If anything Saturday night was better. When you get to that level, there is not much of a difference between a bad run and a good run. 

a) This is all, and I mean ALL subjective scoring by human judge evaluation based on two different nights by two different judges.

b) The Sat judge is to evaluate the Sat run to the sheets, and not compare it to the Fri run or Fri score.

c) SCV went from 1st in guard on Fri to 2nd on Sat; (nothing radical there).

d) SCV did fluctuate .5, but other guards fluctuated as much as .4; so there was no indication of a judge 'out to getcha' for SCV and (nothing radical there).

e) Also there were no radical shifts in rankings by any top 12 guards; again (nothing radical there).

f) So, based on this criteria, because I see nothing radical, I do think that SCV guard may indeed have had a bad run on Sat, or at least BD may have just simply had a better run than SCV (according to that judge).

Edited August 20, 2017 by Stu