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Bruckner8

We need a Fan Ranking App

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2 minutes ago, wilme861 said:

I actually was thinking about this earlier...

The Cavaliers had all the love and attention of younger fans in the 2000s but now that belongs to the Bluecoats in the 2010s. All the high school or younger fans I see just go crazy for Bluecoats over anyone else (and that's before Bluecoats have even performed)

Yeah, that is true. But, I can say a very good chuck of Drum corps fans here in Texas are still Cavies fans. But I admit that the Bluecoats have a very good/young fan base. Heck, I love the bluecoats myself. 

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1 minute ago, Hook'emCavies said:

Yeah, that is true. But, I can say a very good chuck of Drum corps fans here in Texas are still Cavies fans. But I admit that the Bluecoats have a very good/young fan base. Heck, I love the bluecoats myself. 

You may love the Bluecoats. However, imo you love them as a good friend but love the Cavaliers as your most beloved relative. Thus I do not believe for a second, and I am serious, that with an app on your phone you would vote for the Bluecoats over the Cavaliers unless the Cavies were just so awful you could not justify it.

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3 minutes ago, Stu said:

You may love the Bluecoats. However, imo you love them as a good friend but love the Cavaliers as your most beloved relative. Thus I do not believe for a second, and I am serious, that with an app on your phone you would vote for the Bluecoats over the Cavaliers unless the Cavies were just so awful you could not justify it.

You are absolutely correct

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11 minutes ago, Hook'emCavies said:

You are absolutely correct

Thanks for your honesty!!!!!!

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12 hours ago, Stu said:

In all honesty, do you really believe that is how it would work? Or... Would the parents, family, friends, and alumni of each corps, the people who collectivly make up a majority of the audience, actually vote for their own blood, brothers, and sisters instead of a more deserving rival? I lean toward the latter.

I don’t care. If those people are honest, they’d set their “judging profile” to “Corps Homer,” and that’s fine. By placing their fav corps first, say Jersey Surf, at least that has a chance to knock a perennial out of first (with tie breaking rules, etc) I’d have no problem with Surf winning their home show, even if all previous top 12 corps were competing there. 

Of course bias will factor in, just like it does now. I can totally see myself putting SCV or Bloo (homer factors for both) above other corps IN THE SAME BALLPARK, just cuz I can. Again, that’s no different than it works now. 

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12 hours ago, Stu said:

You may love the Bluecoats. However, imo you love them as a good friend but love the Cavaliers as your most beloved relative. 

This is getting juicy.  Which corps comprise his spouse, his mistress, his soulmate, his unobtainable crush, his wing man, his BFF, his FWB, and his forbidden fantasy?

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32 minutes ago, skevinp said:

This is getting juicy.  Which corps comprise his spouse, his mistress, his soulmate, his unobtainable crush, his wing man, his BFF, his FWB, and his forbidden fantasy?

50 Shades of blue.

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1 hour ago, Bruckner8 said:

I don’t care. If those people are honest, they’d set their “judging profile” to “Corps Homer,” and that’s fine. By placing their fav corps first, say Jersey Surf, at least that has a chance to knock a perennial out of first (with tie breaking rules, etc) I’d have no problem with Surf winning their home show, even if all previous top 12 corps were competing there. 

Of course bias will factor in, just like it does now. I can totally see myself putting SCV or Bloo (homer factors for both) above other corps IN THE SAME BALLPARK, just cuz I can. Again, that’s no different than it works now. 

I see this as a complete absurdity.  At the very least, it is an example of some unfounded conspiracy theory.

Look, there is nothing wrong with being a homer for a corps, and being disappointed when they don't score as well as one might like, or being annoyed when a corps one is not particularly fond of scores well.  But being a homer to the point where one wants to completely change the underlying competitive fabric of a competitive activity goes beyond reason.

There is, of course, a certain element of subjectivity in judging any "art" activity.  After all, the outcome of the activity cannot be quantified as easily as say a track race or a basketball game, where the victory goes to the person or team that completes the race in the fastest time, or puts the ball through the hoop the most amount of times.  But, that does not mean that competitions in artistic endeavors are left to totally subjective whims.  Judges in drum corps (or choral singing which my wife is involved with, or visual art competitions which I am involved in) use rubrics which are much less subjective than many "fans" recognize.  Because those rubrics are applied by multiple judges paying specific attention to a specific aspect of the performance, their ability to make an accurate evaluation of the technical skills of the performers (as defined by the competition framework of the activity), judging results are much more accurate than those of the unskilled spectator who may have pronounced biases, and who is viewing things from a broad rather than skill specific position.

I'll go a step further and say that the proposal here would, in the long run, result in a deterioration of corps' quality.  If mastery of technical skills are no longer specifically evaluated, there is little incentive to work hard to master those skills.  Corps performances would degenerate into who can put the most wizz-bang effects on the field and/or who can promote themselves the best so as to garner the votes of the homers. From a competition standpoint the activity would become much less based on merit, and MUCH more subjectivity driven.  Complete absurdity.

[Sidenote: In my wife's chorus competitions at the international level, the organization does give a reasonable nod to audience reaction.  At the beginning of a competition 100 randomly choosen audience members are given ballots.  They can pick their favorite chorus from the competition.  These ballots are collected at the end of the competition.  The winner is awarded an Audience Choice trophy.  This result is entirely seperate from the technical judging and results.  If this proposed app were used in this way, I would have no objections.  I could not support any suggestion of this app being used to determine or influence the results of the competition itself.]

Edited by Photographer Jim
fix typo
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14 minutes ago, Photographer Jim said:

I see this as a complete absurdity.  At the very least, it is an example of some unfounded conspiracy theory.

All Bruckner is saying is that when two corps are so close together that judges can't decide, they default to external factors like past performance. He calls this concept "competitive inertia" (and he offered one hypothesis to test his theory: a corps needs to medal before it can win a championship -- something which has happened in every year except 1972). Search the forums for that phrase and you'll find the hotly discussed thread he started on that subject several years ago. You and he actually agree more than not, I think.

What's more interesting to me is how this reflects larger societal arguments about how much trust we should place in experts. There are good points on both sides and the truth is somwhere in the middle. That's not just in the arts, but it is true that historically, the people who get paid to make artistic judgments are often deemed by history to have been wrong.

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Regardless of how this should or should not affect competitive outcomes, such a hypothetical app sounds fun.  Sort of an extension of in a way of drum corps planet where loads of people who believe they know better give their opinion. 😂. In any event, I'd enjoy that.

As for audience appeal, I believe they built that into the revised GE sheet a few years ago.

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