Jeff Ream Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 1 hour ago, gunther said: Mr Windish - Your assumptions about me and corps affiliation are totally wrong. I am aware of you, though. You allege that DCA did marketing for member corps. Then please give us 3 relevant, major examples spanning its existence. You wrongly try to infer that my corps experience was poor under DCA. Very wrong - no names please. And no again, you have failed to paint me as an ingrate or unhappy or worse. As for being 'championship-centric', well, wrong again. Each week, at each contest, DCA provided judges only but still insisted on calling them sanctioned DCA shows. No participation in advertising. No investment in the cost of any contest. No reduction of judging fees to help a struggling sponsor. No contribution to the host/sponsors' operating costs for the contest. No assistance to corps with unexpected financial distress. DCA always took its cut first, no matter what. The major part of DCA's history was only for NE corps. It's an important reason why nobody outside NE cared about them. DCA after many years only paid lip service to attracting corps from elsewhere than NE. Labor Day weekend was not their original championship date but taken from the old Northeast Circuit. It was intended to weaken (kill) Northeast Circuit. But in doing this, DCA corps had to pay elevated room/food prices on a premier holiday when they could have chosen any other date just as well. Keep in mind that DCA did not pay for those items for themselves but assessed the members for them. Again, DCA took judging fees. Also, the DCA leadership paid each officer and some had generous expense accounts; they were not volunteers. This was not a charity run by unpaid volunteers. "Revenue sharing" was more an exercise in political power than something equitable. Have you been part of the allocations? Have you seen the formulas? It doesn't sound like it. You did not comment on the many years of terrible video products or why DCA could never figure out how to give people a decent product but still took their money. Why did DCA allow its corps membership make-up of adults taken from them without a whimper? Now, college age people are in DCI and the great DCA is left with 14 year-olds trying to make music. The young, physically immature don't have the resonance of mature players, the sound is inferior and it's obvious. The young teen players don't have the physical/athletic skills for demanding maneuvers. By any measure, DCA is an inferior product and has been for a long time. The DCA has been in decline for a long time and the challenges affect every corps and association. DCA has failed to understand the changes, or to anticipate them and has not met them with any real success. That's because from its inception, it was designed and operated only as a judging association seeing to its own wants first. DCA didn't "allow" membership make of adults be taken from them. My first year was 1989, and half the corps was under 21, and without us, the corps would have been dead. DCA had been getting younger for years, even back into the 70's. Older people stopped doing it for a variety of reasons...work, family, the schedule demand....the world changed, and so did the make up of the corps. But I can tell you the last year I marched....1996...i'd wager half the people on the field at retreat that night were 22 or younger. Not just my corps, but all of them. Kids coming in kept several corps alive at various points, and if the kids were kicked out now to suit your vision, DCA would literally be dead. and I am pretty sure Fred knows the inside scoop...he was on the Allentown committee that did DCI East and i do believe helped run DCA in Allentown, and oh...he was the marketing director during the years DCA had 20+ corps coming to prelims annually. He tried to help branch out when DCA tried to run the NC shows in 2005. So he knows. The stories you tell of DCA admin may have been true in the 70's, but times changed. yes DCA took some judging fees. They had to pay the judges and pay for the travel. no judge is gonna hop on a plane and judge a show in the midwest or down south for free. and the cooperation with DCI to get DCA corps judged on DCA sheets at DCI shows has improved quite a bit in the last 15 or so years. as far as advertising....again....you get what you can afford. I'm no DCA shill...Fred will tell you, as he's given me #### for comments i have made over the years, and at least 2 DCA presidents have #####ed me out online LOL. But you seem to have this impression DCA has millions in the bank with which they can just dole out on a whim. it doesn't work that way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 8 hours ago, gunther said: Why did DCA allow its corps membership make-up of adults taken from them without a whimper? Now, college age people are in DCI and the great DCA is left with 14 year-olds trying to make music. How did DCI “take” members from DCA? If you were of the right age and wanted to do tour mode you went for DCI. If you wanted or needed to do weekend mode then you did DCA. Not like the two were the same. signed: guy who joined a Senior corps that needed the warm bodies… at age 16. And kept good percentage of High School age members when I was in (1974-1979) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppycock Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 7 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: I agree the time to look into alternatives for Labor Day has been here for a while as membership has gotten younger. Like many activities, businesses, and products, each has a shelf life! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Poppycock said: Like many activities, businesses, and products, each has a shelf life! Laughing because never thought “shelf life” applies… but it does. Just thinking of a different area if I understand correctly. When DCA started public schools started after Labor Day. My college had move in and register starting day after Labor Day. Now in my area believe all public schools are in 2nd week of class week of Labor day. And family vacations do not revolve around Labor Day weekend as too many conflicts. Only people not affected by this are those who don’t have family members in school (public or higher) and Labor Day is (drum roll please) the Monday off between Memorial Day Monday and the October Monday off (ain’t calling it Columbus Day). Just another societal change hitting the activity Edited June 9, 2022 by JimF-LowBari 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppycock Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 8 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: But I can tell you the last year I marched....1996...i'd wager half the people on the field at retreat that night were 22 or younger. Not just my corps, but all of them. Kids coming in kept several corps alive at various points, and if the kids were kicked out now to suit your vision, DCA would literally be dead. Do you know what the average age is now of the corps you marched in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 23 minutes ago, Poppycock said: Do you know what the average age is now of the corps you marched in? Unfortunately the corps disbanded in the 2000s. Jeff and I marched same corps just few decades apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 13 hours ago, Poppycock said: Fred I appreciate your passion and insights about the DCA organization. I get it and understand it’s root’s thanks to Jeff, Jim and others. Labor Weekend might have been the right choice for a championship when the majority of the membership was primarily older adults. However any younger student worth their salt most likely will be or should be performing with either their high school or college marching band that weekend. Band director’s are pretty unforgiving and have little tolerance for absences when football season begins. Either way I wish all the DCA corps the best. The Labor Day weekend thing has definitely become more of an issue in recent years. The plus side remains as it's always been... the extra day for travel (and to spread out the championship events) on the holiday weekend. The downside is as you and others have said... the school schedules affecting the corps' membership. I have no answers... I'm at best marginally involved now, if even that. LOL. But I wish my friends, and the corps, the best. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Poppycock said: Like many activities, businesses, and products, each has a shelf life! Heck... from personal experience, even DCA announcers have shelf lives!!! 😂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said: How did DCI “take” members from DCA? If you were of the right age and wanted to do tour mode you went for DCI. If you wanted or needed to do weekend mode then you did DCA. Not like the two were the same. signed: guy who joined a Senior corps that needed the warm bodies… at age 16. And kept good percentage of High School age members when I was in (1974-1979) Exactly, Jim. When I joined Sunrisers for the 1977 season I was 18... and we had a whole bunch of members within 2-3 years of my age, up and down. "Kids and girls" is what a couple of our rivals called us. LOL. We kids and girls did OK!!! Edited June 9, 2022 by Fran Haring 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Fran Haring said: Exactly, Jim. When I joined Sunrisers for the 1977 season I was 18... and we had a whole bunch of members within 2-3 years of my age, up and down. "Kids and girls" is what a couple of our rivals called us. LOL. We kids and girls did OK!!! From what I heard mid 70s some corps like Sky and Cabs had no one under 21. Of course there was a healthy Jr scene in that area and plenty of age outs. Someone in Westshoremen said they were talking to someone from Cabs(?) at that time. Found out they were both 21 and the Westshore guy was asked if this was his rookie year. “No this is my 5th year in the corps “. Cabs(?) response was 😳 Edited June 9, 2022 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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