Madison Scouts 2023

[scout9193]

@Vuitton  A lot to unpack there.  I'm sorry for your experiences.  As an alumnus who's always been geographically far removed from the Madison, WI area (North Carolina and now Virginia) there's always been a real challenge in trying to stay involved as my efforts always felt by and large like a one-way street.  Since aging out in 1993 I can recall two times when I proactively heard from a member of corps management/board to give an update and to ask for help and to solicit feedback on potential changes. 

The first was Jeff Spanos via a phone call circa 2007 and the second was circa 2018/19 via an internal at-large email from Brent Turner (who I believe was on the board then) when I first heard about the idea of introducing females to join active as jacket-wearing full marching members (not a featured dancer or wearing the uniform during a holiday parade).  I wrote a long email in response to this request but heard nothing (not even an acknowledgement that my email had been received) until reading the public co-ed announcement here on dcp in early season 2019.  That's a separate discussion but I believe  a decision had been made before any at-large "feedback" was requested.  

It's important to point out that I was never anywhere near a large financial donor even when I was active on what I thought was an alumni roster.  Without my own efforts to keep up with brothers (those I marched with and those that came before/after me) via social media I've never truly felt plugged in/ aware of things. Admittedly, through my own decision to leave FB, twitter and most other social media platforms circa 2020 that awareness dwindled further. I didn't know that the alumni page had been shut down, for example.  

There's always been a portion of our alumni who never are satisfied (I've fallen into that myself group at different points) which has led to internal strife (see the end of Scott Stewart's & Sal Salas' tenures).  That said, as an only child, I'd also believed  brothers can be like this and perhaps this is not unusual.  Hurt feelings, anger, indignation, fighting, sometimes viciously, amongst ourselves happens but woe be unto an outside who tries to intervene or start trouble from the outside. 

In my eyes, after the 2019 decision and what I believe was a fait accompli by a select few with personal agendas, I came to the opinion that the organization I grew to love as a fan & brother & alumnus died.  This, coupled with what I believe is a lack of organized effort by the organization (beyond casual social media) to try to help reconnect with & maintain relationships with far-removed (geographically, age- wise, etc.) brothers has made me feel by and large indifferent as to what happens with this organization now.  I keep in touch with a small handful of brothers (3) but that's all.  

I truly believe, though, that if I didn't still care somewhere deep down and then I wouldn't have bothered replying here.  The activity changes, all things change.  I've accepted that but I will also go to my grave believing that what I was part of was not necessarily better but it was unique to the activity.  Not all change is good, needed or solve underlying problems.  Decisions leading to courses of action or inaction made over the last decade to 15 years have done more harm than good.  I still care but only as a far removed observer (perhaps kind of like someone who looks in passing at traffic accident on the street), and not engaged/valued or thoughtful alumnus. The rubicon has been crossed in my eyes.  

Just my .02 thank you for reading my ramblings.

Respectfully,

CM

[MM2006]

 

"It seems no one at Madison today can handle any sort of criticism and that’s a HUGE problem. We only get better when we are open to feedback and critical thought. Instead, Chris has a bunch of yes men under him and on the board who can’t think for themselves, draw their own conclusions, or do what is in the best interest of the corps. As someone else said, board meetings are completely closed. The system is set up so there are no challenges to Chris’ authority. It’s entirely shocking to me! "

 

As someone who is VERY familiar with the ins and outs of the current Madison Scouts, this is 100% true. On the design and educational front, great staff members with solid forward thinking ideas are just burned through just for the sake of saying yes to the man. Funny how an organization that is "inclusive" continues to be a boys club. An entirely male design team created to keep Jason Robb employed. 

Edited July 11, 2023 by MM2006

[MikeN]

20 hours ago, kdaddy said:

Can anyone corroborate any of this? And also compare with other drum corps? 

(e.g., as a $500+ donor to Phantom Regiment and Blue Stars, I've never been asked to vote for anything nor should I be)

Purely off the top of my head, I don't know of any other corps whose membership / Board requirements were quite so free and open as Madison's.  Sure wasn't for us at Guardians.

Mike

[HockeyDad]

I think it may be important to note that none of the recent posts were negative towards the marching members. You can hope for the best and appreciate the kids’ efforts, and also be critical of the leadership. Both can happen at the same time. We may gut agree or disagree with these recent posts, but they seem to be from the heart. And that I do appreciate. 

[Vuitton]

39 minutes ago, HockeyDad said:

I think it may be important to note that none of the recent posts were negative towards the marching members. You can hope for the best and appreciate the kids’ efforts, and also be critical of the leadership. Both can happen at the same time. We may gut agree or disagree with these recent posts, but they seem to be from the heart. And that I do appreciate. 

Absolutely. I won't be going to any shows this year, but if I were I would be screaming and cheering loudly for them. I actually like this year's show, musically, but the visual weaknesses IMO are going to leave them 14th to 16th come end of the season. Still the kids are doing a great job.

[Vuitton]

@scout9193 Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

I am glad you brought something up. I was in by no means a big donor. Not by a long shot. But if you put thousands of small donors together the amount can get big.

I too never hear from the corps. I never get any requests for donations or anything. That's also part of the problem. Why is Boston a top tier corps? The base of their success is their involved and supportive alumni and the relationship that alumni has with the adminstration. Why is Regiment kick butt this year? Their alumni. After the 2018 or 2019 seasons, their alumni became much more involved and were welcomed by the adminstration.

Chris doesn't want to share power or authority. That, in itself, is a receipe for disaster.

[Vuitton]

1 hour ago, MM2006 said:

As someone who is VERY familiar with the ins and outs of the current Madison Scouts, this is 100% true. On the design and educational front, great staff members with solid forward thinking ideas are just burned through just for the sake of saying yes to the man. Funny how an organization that is "inclusive" continues to be a boys club. An entirely male design team created to keep Jason Robb employed. 

I was blocked by Madison on Twitter in 2019 after commenting something about hoping Blue Devils B and Vanguard Cadets don't beat them finals week. Under the corps preview video on YouTube there were comments critical to the design. All deleted. 

In 2014 (or maybe 2013 - can't quite remember) I sent Jim Mason a message on Facebook. The message was just me gushing over Star. I'm a HUGE Star fan and in that moment I was listening to and watching Star like crazy. To my complete surprise, he responded to thank me for my comments and tell me what a wonderful time he had at Star and how proud he was of that organization and the achievements of it and its members.

Then, and I would never have the guts to do this face-to-face, I replied and said I felt like he was doing at Madison what he did at Star in '88 and '89 - writing shows beneath the talent of their members and therefore inhibiting their competetive success. To my surprise, again, he wrote back. I was nervous to see what he had to say. He was wonderful and kind. He told me what he thought had to be done to move a corps up the rankings and what he and the team were doing to get them there, amongst other things. I may not have completely understood or agreed with him, but I respected him even more. He could have just ignored me. He could have just shot me down. Instead, he was open to what I had to say and shared his thoughts in a concise and kind way. I will never forget that and I will always appreciate it.

That's how you handle criticsm. You don't threaten to throw someone in a lake with concrete blocks around their ankles. 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Vuitton

[MGCpimpOtimp]

Are we really gonna just gloss over the toxic and vitriolic reaction of a lot of the alumni over the co-ed decision? That was also around the time the alumni page was taken down, and given some of the absolute nonsense I had seen, seems like the right move to me.

Edited July 11, 2023 by MGCpimpOtimp

[MM2006]

6 minutes ago, MGCpimpOtimp said:

Are we really gonna just gloss over the toxic and vitriolic reaction of a lot of the alumni over the co-ed decision? That was also around the time the alumni page was taken down, and given some of the absolute nonsense I had seen, seems like the right move to me.

Given that the behavior was toxic and absolutely not constructive, yes it should have been shut down. 

The way that they manage their staff currently is something else. Everyone else will get fired/blamed before Jason Robb, Noah Bellamy etc. assume responsibility. 

Chris Komnick will see 100 design teams come and go before he takes responsibility. I suppose that's the real issue here. 

[MGCpimpOtimp]

Am I missing something here? They had a great show in 2021 that everyone loved (with talent coming off a 17th place finish and a year of covid), from that team. 2022 was a miss, it happens. 2023 seems to be on the verge of getting back into finals, all captions seem stronger than previous years.

Boston spent all the money in the world to bring in the best of the best designers, all the equipment and everything. It took them from 12th to 6th in one year, but then took another 5 years to get a medal, and they're still looking for their first championship. These things take time. From the outside looking in, Madison seems to be on the right path and making forward progress on that path.