The Cadets 2023

[Eric M. Buckman]

This is a lovely show overall, my challenge is this. 

The entirety of the Corps is seemingly unbalance relative to the show.  Some years the focus may be color guard driven visually.  Some years it may be Battery.  But, those all have to have a foundational aspect that the Brass has to be relevant and present throughout, to tie everything together.  

This show will place exactly where it is is supposed, as there is very low demand from the largest contributors relative to the production.  The Brass.  The Colorguard and Battery hold their own within the construct of the design.  

The Cadets have been long known for marching and maneuvering while playing...and that simply doesn't hold up this year.

General Synopsis of Timeline

The entirety of the 13 minute production compromises the following

The Battery entrance 1:12 seconds long

Brass enters and plays for ~30 seconds

Brass Movement for another 31 seconds without playing

Brass stands and plays another 24 second during Triple Tonging Feature

Low Demand Drill 16 seconds

Stop and play 10 seconds

Drums 44 seconds

Solo Ballad 36 seconds with Low Brass and small Hornlike contribution

Duet 1:03 seconds  into full hornline. 

Full Hornline Low Demand 26 seconds

Battery FEATURE 46 seconds. Brass More Movement No playing

Brass Enters 1:19 second low demand drill

Brass Enters Moderate demand 30 seconds

Pit feature Drum Set Brass Movement No play 45 seconds

Baritone Feature 26 seconds

FULL HORNLINE 18 seconds

Stand And Play 20 seconds

FINALE 1:42 of Low/Moderate demand Marching and playing by Brass. 

While this can be described as a wonderfully delightful Cadets show, from the perspective of what the largest group has to offer the Brass, shorts and all, it is a low demand show.  Which means that the guard and battery have to excel beyond belief to make up for everything else. Even if the Brass is flawless musically, the demand isn't really there, otherwise. 

Cadets have always been the outliers, it is why no one ever uses them to explain demand within the context of the Drum Corps idiom, as they have always had one of the higher demands on M/M, historically(while playing).  This show is a definite departure from that, nothing bad, but simply a departure from what, I like many have grown accustomed to since 1982. IMO

But, it 'tis a very nice show.  Keep cleaning, have fun. And remember Placements/scores don't matter. Will this show live on, 10, 20, 30 years from now, will it be talked about, regardless of placement?  That is yet to be seen, and that seemingly is what Cadets have done for the last 40+ years.

 

 

 

[Hrothgar15]

29 minutes ago, Eric M. Buckman said:

This is a lovely show overall, my challenge is this. 

The entirety of the Corps is seemingly unbalance relative to the show.  Some years the focus may be color guard driven visually.  Some years it may be Battery.  But, those all have to have a foundational aspect that the Brass has to be relevant and present throughout, to tie everything together.  

This show will place exactly where it is is supposed, as there is very low demand from the largest contributors relative to the production.  The Brass.  The Colorguard and Battery hold their own within the construct of the design.  

The Cadets have been long known for marching and maneuvering while playing...and that simply doesn't hold up this year.

General Synopsis of Timeline

The entirety of the 13 minute production compromises the following

The Battery entrance 1:12 seconds long

Brass enters and plays for ~30 seconds

Brass Movement for another 31 seconds without playing

Brass stands and plays another 24 second during Triple Tonging Feature

Low Demand Drill 16 seconds

Stop and play 10 seconds

Drums 44 seconds

Solo Ballad 36 seconds with Low Brass and small Hornlike contribution

Duet 1:03 seconds  into full hornline. 

Full Hornline Low Demand 26 seconds

Battery FEATURE 46 seconds. Brass More Movement No playing

Brass Enters 1:19 second low demand drill

Brass Enters Moderate demand 30 seconds

Pit feature Drum Set Brass Movement No play 45 seconds

Baritone Feature 26 seconds

FULL HORNLINE 18 seconds

Stand And Play 20 seconds

FINALE 1:42 of Low/Moderate demand Marching and playing by Brass. 

While this can be described as a wonderfully delightful Cadets show, from the perspective of what the largest group has to offer the Brass, shorts and all, it is a low demand show.  Which means that the guard and battery have to excel beyond belief to make up for everything else. Even if the Brass is flawless musically, the demand isn't really there, otherwise. 

Cadets have always been the outliers, it is why no one ever uses them to explain demand within the context of the Drum Corps idiom, as they have always had one of the higher demands on M/M, historically(while playing).  This show is a definite departure from that, nothing bad, but simply a departure from what, I like many have grown accustomed to since 1982. IMO

But, it 'tis a very nice show.  Keep cleaning, have fun. And remember Placements/scores don't matter. Will this show live on, 10, 20, 30 years from now, will it be talked about, regardless of placement?  That is yet to be seen, and that seemingly is what Cadets have done for the last 40+ years.

 

 

 

This is the exact breakdown I planned on doing but you did it better than I could have. It’s an astounding design choice.

[Restless]

That analysis is great if you think shows are still adjudicated like it’s 1994…….

[Hrothgar15]

22 minutes ago, Restless said:

That analysis is great if you think shows are still adjudicated like it’s 1994…….

Everyone else’s hornline is playing full minutes more than theirs is.

[Restless]

22 minutes ago, Hrothgar15 said:

Everyone else’s hornline is playing full minutes more than theirs is.

And BD won brass last year by playing the least amount of minutes out of literally everyone. Maybe you can crank the numbers on that one next? 

[DAYGO]

49 minutes ago, Hrothgar15 said:

Everyone else’s hornline is playing full minutes more than theirs is.

Prove it. Or ask Eric to.  

[Chief Guns]

27 minutes ago, Restless said:

And BD won brass last year by playing the least amount of minutes out of literally everyone.

Are there legit numbers to back this up? 

Thank you in advance. 

[DAYGO]

3 minutes ago, Chief Guns said:

Are there legit numbers to back this up? 

Thank you in advance. 

Eric Buckman should have it.  

[saxfreq1128]

2 hours ago, Eric M. Buckman said:

This is a lovely show overall, my challenge is this. 

The entirety of the Corps is seemingly unbalance relative to the show.  Some years the focus may be color guard driven visually.  Some years it may be Battery.  But, those all have to have a foundational aspect that the Brass has to be relevant and present throughout, to tie everything together.  

This show will place exactly where it is is supposed, as there is very low demand from the largest contributors relative to the production.  The Brass.  The Colorguard and Battery hold their own within the construct of the design.  

The Cadets have been long known for marching and maneuvering while playing...and that simply doesn't hold up this year. […]

If you’re gonna do this to measure demand — and I’m not sure you should — you should probably come up with a more robust definition of demand than “marching while playing.” Especially if we’re gonna pretend that we’re seeing this as the judges might.   

For example: You mention that the show opens with a 1:12minute battery feature, but you don’t mention what the hornline is doing during that feature, which includes sprinting and dancing. So when we get to sections like “Brass stands and plays another 24 second during Triple Tonging Feature,” we should probably keep in mind the cardio stress of the preceding 2 minutes and the difficulty of performing a clean triple tonguing feature, as an ensemble, under those conditions. You can’t just summarize this stuff as “movement” when the movement includes sprinting. 

Further — I’ve said before and I’ll say again — it’s a big mistake to think that continual marching + playing is a higher demand activity than the start/stop approach. The start/stop approach is way closer to interval training — brief spurts of intense cardio alternating with brief spurts of rest — and there’s a reason why people looking for intense cardio favor interval training to, say, taking a long jog. Interval training places higher demands on the body than more durative periods of straight exercise. When you add playing an instrument to the mix, game over.  

I get that people love and prefer old school drum corps and that’s their choice. I love that stuff too. But there’s a difference between what we prefer and what’s actually harder. I’m begging us to understand the difference.

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by saxfreq1128

[DAYGO]

25 minutes ago, saxfreq1128 said:

If you’re gonna do this to measure demand — and I’m not sure you should — you should probably come up with a more robust definition of demand than “marching while playing.” Especially if we’re gonna pretend that we’re seeing this as the judges might.   

For example: You mention that the show opens with a 1:12minute battery feature, but you don’t mention what the hornline is doing during that feature, which includes sprinting and dancing. So when we get to sections like “Brass stands and plays another 24 second during Triple Tonging Feature,” we should probably keep in mind the cardio stress of the preceding 2 minutes and the difficulty of performing a clean triple tonguing feature, as an ensemble, under those conditions. You can’t just summarize this stuff as “movement” when the movement includes sprinting. 

Further — I’ve said before and I’ll say again — it’s a big mistake to think that continual marching + playing is a higher demand activity than the start/stop approach. The start/stop approach is way closer to interval training — brief spurts of intense cardio alternating with brief spurts of rest — and there’s a reason why people looking for intense cardio favor interval training to, say, taking a long jog. Interval training places higher demands on the body than more durative periods of straight exercise. When you add playing an instrument to the mix, game over.  

I get that people love and prefer old school drum corps and that’s their choice. I love that stuff too. But there’s a difference between what we prefer and what’s actually harder. I’m begging us to understand the difference.

 

Preach!! 100%!  This show is more demanding than most people are giving it credit for.  My son has friends in several corps, Bloo and Crown included, and they have been very complementary of the physical demand and execution thus far.  They all know that it has to get cleaner and that when it does, they believe they will close these scoring gaps quickly.