greg_orangecounty Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 42 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: whose tic is the right tic? It was a tongue-in-cheek comment, but had any M&M judge witnessed someone tripping and falling under that system it would have been a penalty (tic/tick). I assume under the category of dropped or grounded equipment, but I don't know for sure as we never did either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbass598 Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 10 minutes ago, ContraFart said: So if the judges only work with so many numbers, could it be possible the judge had that 20 on the sheet before RCC took the floor? No. Look at the numbers given. they were not trapped into a number. Additionally, Competition Suite allows judges to adjust numbers before a show is finalized. They are able to change numbers if necessary as the intent is to get placements and score gaps correct. Perfect isn't perfect. Its just a number as long as all groups are judged in the same context. You could drop every groups score by 2 points or 5 points and the result is still the result as long as the gaps and placements are accurate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karuna Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 BTW I'm in no way minimizing how it feels to have a great season, see wonderful growth in the performers, have judges recognize the product all season, only to have a single judge call the show at the end. It sucks. Terribly. You feel betrayed by the system and worse you feel like you let your performers get betrayed as well. It's no fun at all. But if you've taught them to view things with the right perspective, you do get to see them handle it like pro's 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbass598 Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 14 minutes ago, karuna said: BTW I'm in no way minimizing how it feels to have a great season, see wonderful growth in the performers, have judges recognize the product all season, only to have a single judge call the show at the end. It sucks. Terribly. You feel betrayed by the system and worse you feel like you let your performers get betrayed as well. It's no fun at all. But if you've taught them to view things with the right perspective, you do get to see them handle it like pro's I only saw one group with a poopy face look on their faces after their finals placements were announced and it wasn't RCC. I think most people do and should feel content with entertaining people and being their best while not letting someone else's opinion destroy your personal feelings. For that group that looked upset with their placement, I hope they could reflect and still know they were a great group who entertained thousands of people that night and all season long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resipsaloquitur Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, ContraFart said: The only perfect score of the night went to RCC in visual. I think that's ridiculous. I'm not asking for a tick system but why do people think I'm crazy for saying you don't deserve a perfect visual score IF SOMEONE FALLS DOWN???? RCC people are complaining that a single judge sunk them. If they won, Pulse would have had a better argument that a single judge saved RCC. I think you're off the mark here. Judges don't notice many things. And that's OK. They can't have eyes all over the floor. Nor do they have the benefit of Flo's multicam. RCC's shows had lots of strong, simultaneous visual and music moments and the judge could have been focusing on another moment. Even assuming the judge did notice, have you read the visual score sheets? It's precisely as one other commenter said, the tic system is gone. Boston Crusaders dropped rifles and yet took guard. Edited April 25, 2023 by resipsaloquitur emphasis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resipsaloquitur Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 7 hours ago, ContraFart said: The only perfect score of the night went to RCC in visual. I think that's ridiculous. I'm not asking for a tick system but why do people think I'm crazy for saying you don't deserve a perfect visual score IF SOMEONE FALLS DOWN???? RCC people are complaining that a single judge sunk them. If they won, Pulse would have had a better argument that a single judge saved RCC. Again, you're off the mark here. if RCC won, the other judges would have been vindicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 2 hours ago, resipsaloquitur said: I think you're off the mark here. Judges don't notice many things. And that's OK. They can't have eyes all over the floor. Nor do they have the benefit of Flo's multicam. RCC's shows had lots of strong, simultaneous visual and music moments and the judge could have been focusing on another moment. Even assuming the judge did notice, have you read the visual score sheets? It's precisely as one other commenter said, the tic system is gone. Boston Crusaders dropped rifles and yet took guard. I'm sorry that's a weak position. You are looking at a basketball court not a football field. You are also looking at the most noticeable instrument on the court in a 5 to 10 second incident. Don't tell me a judge sitting in the stands didn't notice. That's BS. Also 75% of all DCI performances have a CG drop. Almost none have somebody falling down. You can't compare the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 7 hours ago, gbass598 said: No. Look at the numbers given. they were not trapped into a number. Additionally, Competition Suite allows judges to adjust numbers before a show is finalized. They are able to change numbers if necessary as the intent is to get placements and score gaps correct. Perfect isn't perfect. Its just a number as long as all groups are judged in the same context. You could drop every groups score by 2 points or 5 points and the result is still the result as long as the gaps and placements are accurate. Am I the only person that thinks a perfect score means something more than a spread? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbass598 Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 28 minutes ago, ContraFart said: Am I the only person that thinks a perfect score means something more than a spread? How do you define perfection in an artistic activity where judging is relatively subjective? Here is the WGI visual sheets in question: Note this under the Performance subcaption. Ensemble Cohesiveness: The ability of the ensemble to establish and maintain control and stability, including adaptation and recovery if necessary. https://wgi.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/2020_WGI_Percussion_Visual-MPE_Scoresheetpdf.pdf https://wgi.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/2020_WGI_Percussion_Effect-Visual-MPE-Scoresheet.pdf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingusmonk Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 3 hours ago, resipsaloquitur said: Again, you're off the mark here. if RCC won, the other judges would have been vindicated. Y'all have some wild ideas about how judges view both their individual roles and how their piece fits into the final outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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