Blue Devils -- Too good for the rest of DCI?

[2000Cadet]

40 minutes ago, DFA1970 said:

Corps have been at that level...Cadets, Cavaliers and SCV. Unfortunately they are no longer for whatever reason.

Emphasis on "have been."  BD continually stays at that level. I think we all know what happened with Cadets. I can't speak on Cavies and SCV, but the point is BD's formula works for them and they have been consistent with it AND have been consistently great. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by 2000Cadet

[jwillis35]

36 minutes ago, ContraFart said:

BD is on third, a few other corps are on 2nd and most of the rest are at the plate without a bat. 

I agree. This is always going to be the case in drum corps (or even more generically in band competition). You will always have corps who are not able to expand their structure and mostly cannot recruit the 19-21 year old college kids. Many corps come out with 14-16 year old kids. None of us expect them to compete with BD...or Crown, Bloo, Boston. Some of these kids march in Open Class, but we have WC corps marching kids this age. 

Some corps get a lot of kids in the 16-18 bracket. They can be very good but not top 4. 

There is just no way of ensuring that each WC corps gets a perfect mix of talent with kids aged 17-21. Kids do not want us telling them where to go. They have their favorites. It's up to the drum corps to build their success. And honestly not every drum corps has the same mission. Not every unit is trying to win at all costs. They may enjoy learning through competition but in the end they enjoy performing. They enjoy travel, friendship, education, hard work...but scores may not mean as much. 

[jwillis35]

As a general opinion on this topic -- not aimed at anyone -- I think we have to shift the focus of what the activity is about. I am talking about our focus (the fans). For 90%+ of the kids that march DCI I do not think they are focused on winning. Subjects like this one (about BD) tend to come up mainly because we think there must be something wrong with the activity or there needs to be some fairness. I think the judging system is for the most part very fair. Our judges do their best. 

I do think the kids enjoy competition but they see it as a way of improving themselves and their corps. I do not think they are solely focused on where they place. Most of them do not get to the end of the season and think "darn it, we did not get top 5, or we did not medal therefore this summer was a bust." They are not paying big bucks to buy a placement. They go to a corps that suits them, that fits their style. They love to learn, work hard, travel, and perform. They enjoy making an audience applause and making people happy. Are these things worth more than where you score and place? YES! It's nice to win or be top 3 or top 5. Or maybe you hope to be top 12. That does give you a reason to push and work hard. But in the end if the other things do not matter then why do it.

If you love making music then regardless of placement you still love making music. 

[ContraFart]

25 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

As a general opinion on this topic -- not aimed at anyone -- I think we have to shift the focus of what the activity is about. I am talking about our focus (the fans). For 90%+ of the kids that march DCI I do not think they are focused on winning. Subjects like this one (about BD) tend to come up mainly because we think there must be something wrong with the activity or there needs to be some fairness. I think the judging system is for the most part very fair. Our judges do their best. 

I do think the kids enjoy competition but they see it as a way of improving themselves and their corps. I do not think they are solely focused on where they place. Most of them do not get to the end of the season and think "darn it, we did not get top 5, or we did not medal therefore this summer was a bust." They are not paying big bucks to buy a placement. They go to a corps that suits them, that fits their style. They love to learn, work hard, travel, and perform. They enjoy making an audience applause and making people happy. Are these things worth more than where you score and place? YES! It's nice to win or be top 3 or top 5. Or maybe you hope to be top 12. That does give you a reason to push and work hard. But in the end if the other things do not matter then why do it.

If you love making music then regardless of placement you still love making music. 

This plays into what I said about the activity not existing for the fan. It simply doesn't. It really only exists for the marching members.

However if winning was not on the mind of some of the top tier performers, then why do so many go from a top 5 corps to BD than the other way around? 

[wvu80]

6 hours ago, ContraFart said:

I have also realized that the drum corps activity does not exist for the audience. It exists solely for the marching members.

I dunno, you could be right because out of all the dozens of drum corps and thousands of participants, only 150 kids will win. 

However, it seems like a symbiosis to me.  How many kids would be in drum corps if there were no audience to play to?  We exist in harmony, both audience and marching member playing his part in the greater good.  A ying and a yang in perfect harmony,

Dang, that may be a theme for next year's Blue Devils program! 

[PR90]

20 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

As a general opinion on this topic -- not aimed at anyone -- I think we have to shift the focus of what the activity is about. I am talking about our focus (the fans). For 90%+ of the kids that march DCI I do not think they are focused on winning. Subjects like this one (about BD) tend to come up mainly because we think there must be something wrong with the activity or there needs to be some fairness. I think the judging system is for the most part very fair. Our judges do their best. 

I do think the kids enjoy competition but they see it as a way of improving themselves and their corps. I do not think they are solely focused on where they place. Most of them do not get to the end of the season and think "darn it, we did not get top 5, or we did not medal therefore this summer was a bust." They are not paying big bucks to buy a placement. They go to a corps that suits them, that fits their style. They love to learn, work hard, travel, and perform. They enjoy making an audience applause and making people happy. Are these things worth more than where you score and place? YES! It's nice to win or be top 3 or top 5. Or maybe you hope to be top 12. That does give you a reason to push and work hard. But in the end if the other things do not matter then why do it.

If you love making music then regardless of placement you still love making music. 

This is on point.  Corps should not have ring chasing or BD cloning as their primary goal because it will implode most of these organizations.  They don't have the personnel, means or both to do it consistently.  Produce the best product you can for the field without mortgaging your corps' future and give the members a great experience.  That is what they will remember and keep them connected with the corps, not a medal.

George Hopkins, though a well-deserved pariah in the activity, did have some words of wisdom I heard in a video years ago.  Paraphrasing, he said something like winning for the first time was not what he thought it would be.  Instead of endless praise and glory after the season was over, it became apparent the new pressure was to do it again and again.

[DWW11]

13 minutes ago, PR90 said:

This is on point.  Corps should not have ring chasing or BD cloning as their primary goal because it will implode most of these organizations.  They don't have the personnel, means or both to do it consistently.  Produce the best product you can for the field without mortgaging your corps' future and give the members a great experience.  That is what they will remember and keep them connected with the corps, not a medal.

George Hopkins, though a well-deserved pariah in the activity, did have some words of wisdom I heard in a video years ago.  Paraphrasing, he said something like winning for the first time was not what he thought it would be.  Instead of endless praise and glory after the season was over, it became apparent the new pressure was to do it again and again.

Your paraphrase is exactly what i have been trying to say. Even IF it is true that BD “starts on 3rd base” (a belief i do not agree with) there is no acknowledgment that the pressure to MAINTAIN that level, the expectations that these members carry, is enormous and that should counter any claim that they have a big advantage. IMHO, obviously. 

[Rylan]

19 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

I dunno, you could be right because out of all the dozens of drum corps and thousands of participants, only 150 kids will win. 

However, it seems like a symbiosis to me.  How many kids would be in drum corps if there were no audience to play to?  We exist in harmony, both audience and marching member playing his part in the greater good.  A ying and a yang in perfect harmony,

Dang, that may be a theme for next year's Blue Devils program! 

The "Both Sides Now" ballad kind of already has a yin and yang formation/set. Probably intentional because of the "both sides" they're trying to represent in their show. 

[ContraFart]

20 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

I dunno, you could be right because out of all the dozens of drum corps and thousands of participants, only 150 kids will win. 

However, it seems like a symbiosis to me.  How many kids would be in drum corps if there were no audience to play to?  We exist in harmony, both audience and marching member playing his part in the greater good.  A ying and a yang in perfect harmony,

Dang, that may be a theme for next year's Blue Devils program! 

But that yin and yang is not in perfect harmony. Why watch a competition if 2/3 of time the same team will win? You begin to watch it more to see if that team will lose, rather than root for a winner.

[ContraFart]

6 minutes ago, DWW11 said:

Your paraphrase is exactly what i have been trying to say. Even IF it is true that BD “starts on 3rd base” (a belief i do not agree with) there is no acknowledgment that the pressure to MAINTAIN that level, the expectations that these members carry, is enormous and that should counter any claim that they have a big advantage. IMHO, obviously. 

But the structural advantages remove so much of that pressure. I admit years of smart organization and staff cultivation have constructed some of these advantages, but the advantage that is biggest is that BD will always be a majority of performers first choice.