DCI Judging - YT Video by Funliner Productions

[ContraFart]

2 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

You weren’t even the person I replied to originally about Chumley, you just inserted yourself in. Why are you surprised now that when I am replying to you, I am directly referring to you? 
 

Seems like you have more of a vested interest in trolling BD fans than acting in good faith

And you have a vested interest in showing personal disdain for those who don't like BD. 

Never once have I ever made anything about you, but multiple times you have attacked me personally. 

[Cappybara]

Just now, Jeff Ream said:

Prelims was never part of the joke/accusation statistically. Don’t move the goalposts 

Uh huh

[Cappybara]

Just now, ContraFart said:

And you have a vested interest in showing personal disdain for those who don't like BD. 

Never once have I ever made anything about you, but multiple times you have attacked me personally. 

Comical

[ContraFart]

4 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

What about my item? Just because you’re looking at the same person doesn’t mean you’re looking at the same part of the body.

You say I am moving the goal posts, but you keep attempting to distill my argument to a single point when I am trying to have a broader conversation. 

[MarimbaManiac]

28 minutes ago, ContraFart said:

Thank you for that, but here is my question and I think this is at the heart of my issue. What happens when multiple groups display all of those objective criteria at a high level? That is at the point where I believe the subjectivity comes into play.

Somewhat. 

For the most part, all of the corps are showcasing all of the required skills throughout out their shows, but at that point the questions become:

• How often do you showcase them?
• What ELSE is happening that makes them more or less difficult to achieve simultaneously?
• How many skills are you showcasing at the same time?
• How well are you executing those skills in comparison to your peers?
   

So while they may all showcase them at a "high level" there is definitely a difference in context, execution, and how well those skills contribute to overall effect. 

I go back to critiques and tapes, because judges have gotten really good at using objective and quantifiable terms to describe what they're seeing/hearing. 

That being said, yes at some point subjectivity comes into play. Look at the two MA judges last night, judging the same caption at the same show. They disagreed completely. 

[jsd]

4 minutes ago, ContraFart said:

You say I am moving the goal posts, but you keep attempting to distill my argument to a single point when I am trying to have a broader conversation. 

Honest question (no snark): What is the "broader conversation"?

[ContraFart]

2 hours ago, jsd said:

Honest question (no snark): What is the "broader conversation"?

Well I started out this thread by honestly not knowing how content and achievement scores were interconnected, and some people including you gave me some really great information.  @jwillis35 gave a great explanation which I appreciated and understood where he was coming from but I wondered why content was separately scored and not just incorporated into the box rubrics. I then mentioned that when DCI judges are criticized, the defense is always their fallibility and the limitation of what they can see rather than in philosophy itself, then I made the comparison to figure skating when it comes to objective comparisons, which became the hyper fixation and the thread devolved from there. 

So what is the broader conversation? I guess I just want challenge the current philosophy and at least have people think about how we got to the current judging system and if there is still room for improvement. Judging art seems like an impossible task which needs to always be examined in my opinion. 

I have been told that the best way for me to understand is to become a judge myself. I am not against that idea, but as I stated earlier in this thread my location gives hurdles to that idea. At the same time I also feel like its telling a person that has questions about God to go to church, which in one perspective is a perfectly rational idea, but completely ludicrous in another perspective. Am I going to have a broad philosophical conversation, or be told how to believe? 

Maybe I am too Socratic for a message board because every time I keep broadening the question, I am accused of moving the goal posts. 

Edited August 11, 2023 by ContraFart

[TOC]

3 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

Never said it was automatic but there was a history bearing the accusation out at finals

Wasn't there a lady guard judge years back who seemed to look kindly on BD?  Didn't she recently begin working with another WC corps?  

[Chief Guns]

1 hour ago, TOC said:

Wasn't there a lady guard judge years back who seemed to look kindly on BD?  Didn't she recently begin working with another WC corps?  

I remember hearing some people say that Debbie Torchia was on the BD payroll, but one year at a TOC event (Houston??), she hit BDs guard over the head with a frying pan, absolutely leveled them, and that accusation went out the window. Haven't heard it since. 

[Jeff Ream]

4 hours ago, ContraFart said:

You say I am moving the goal posts, but you keep attempting to distill my argument to a single point when I am trying to have a broader conversation. 

No when you raised one person versus a full field I clarified that they may not be looking at the same part of the body. You continue to try circular logic and every time I’m able to call it out and counter.