Jeff Ream Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 53 minutes ago, Boss Anova said: The Troopers of 2005 would beg to differ however that ( your words) " DCI has no such leverage over internal Corps matters ". DCI in 2005 after that season suspended the Troopers for the 2006 season and mandated that the Corps change mgt there as a mandatory condition of return to the ranks of DCI, and for the return to competition. Troopers took the suspension, and the year off in 2006, and complied with DCI's directive to change management there,. Once DCI Board of Directors were satisfied the Troopers had also complied with the submittance of IRS payments and verifications of such to DCI HQ, the Troopers were then allowed by DCI Board of Directors vote in 2006 to return to the field of competition in 2007. ( See historic info below ) Group wants Troopers to stop marching (trib.com) DCI also forced management change on the Cadets in 18 and Pioneer also, tho only Cadets changed. a few times. in a new town. and well... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Anova Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 41 minutes ago, Daave said: Having spent a week one day in Casper, if one is putting any credence in the journalism capabilities the Casper Star Tribune, it would be be misplaced. Cant vouch for the reporting as Lord Knows, lots of news media can often get things wrong,,, but the info the paper had here was accurate. DCI suspended the Troopers in 2005 for the 2006 season with the requirement to change mgt there, file IRS records, send to DCI, and get,get their tax filings house in order. Troopers essentially would not be allowed back in, unless they complied with the DCI BOD mandates. Troopers did so. DCI BOD voted to end the 1 year suspension, and the Troopers then were allowed r to return to competition in 2007. If readers on here assess how the Troopers were dealt with in 2005-2006 by DCI BOD as seemingly a bit differently than how SCV has been dealt with by the current DCI BOD the last 12 months, then they would not be the first to notice, imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Anova Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, 2muchcoffeeman said: Even if 100% accurate on those details, none of it establishes DCI being responsible -- i.e., legally liable -- for whatever the Troopers did, or didn't, do. DCI laid out conditions, and Troop decided to comply. Troop could have said no, and walked away, and DCI would have had no power to stop them. Point is, such a set of carrot-and-stick facts is not the same thing as DCI having, or being able to have, any kind of direct control over the corps. If you want to establish that DCI has legal exposure because SCV is a member, Troopers 2006 isn't the precedent you need, I don't think. I am not saying that what a DCI member Corps does that DCI is " responsible, nor "legally liable" for what a member Corps does. Thats because every situation that occurs as a behavior and actions on the part of Corps are not the same. As such, thats really up to a court to decide what responsibility, if any, DCI as an organization had in the matter in their oversight as an organization. As far as the ability for the Troopers to exit DCI if they did not agree with the terms of membership and their suspension by DCI for 2006, that exit courtesy is extended to all DCI Corps. In essence, a DCI Corps can unilaterally leave DCI ... and for any reason,. ( for just one example :, 1993 Star of Indiana ). For context here too, we have read/ heard that SCV is " not a member of DCI ". My reply to that assessment made on here was not to disagree with that assessment. I'm really unsure on that, but will defer to others on here if that is their understanding from what they are hearing from those closer to the DCI BOD than I am. My point was to point out that the official DCI website of the Organization itself still shows pretty clearly at the moment that SCV is a member of the World Class Division of DCI. Whether or not that current DCI membership listing for SCV is a wise and prudent thing to DO to do given their current situation is above my paygrade as I'm not a lawyer. But it seems to me that if we are to believe that SCV is not currently a member of DCI, it just seems wise to me to have your organizations own website not state that they currently are a DCI member Corps. ( ps.. good and civil discussion by the way ) 👌 Edited November 27, 2023 by Boss Anova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 4 hours ago, Boss Anova said: Cant vouch for the reporting as Lord Knows, lots of news media can often get things wrong,,, but the info the paper had here was accurate. DCI suspended the Troopers in 2005 for the 2006 season with the requirement to change mgt there, file IRS records, send to DCI, and get,get their tax filings house in order. Troopers essentially would not be allowed back in, unless they complied with the DCI BOD mandates. Troopers did so. DCI BOD voted to end the 1 year suspension, and the Troopers then were allowed r to return to competition in 2007. If readers on here assess how the Troopers were dealt with in 2005-2006 by DCI BOD as seemingly a bit differently than how SCV has been dealt with by the current DCI BOD the last 12 months, then they would not be the first to notice, imo it seems the key is the IRS was involved for Troop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 11 hours ago, Boss Anova said: The Troopers of 2005 would beg to differ however that ( your words) " DCI has no such leverage over internal Corps matters ". DCI in 2005 after that season suspended the Troopers for the 2006 season and mandated that the Corps change mgt there as a mandatory condition of return to the ranks of DCI, and for the return to competition. Troopers took the suspension, and the year off in 2006, and complied with DCI's directive to change management there,. Once DCI Board of Directors were satisfied the Troopers had also complied with the submittance of IRS payments and verifications of such to DCI HQ, the Troopers were then allowed by DCI Board of Directors vote in 2006 to return to the field of competition in 2007. ( See historic info below ) Group wants Troopers to stop marching (trib.com) Some Corps are more equal than other Corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Anova Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said: Some Corps are more equal than other Corps. ...... Yes, or in other terms too... " rank has its privileges " ( it would seem ) For example and context, the Troopers in 2005 ( that was suspended by DCI after that season ) were coming off season placements of 21st ( 2002 ), 22nd ( 2003 ), 22nd ( 2004 ) and again 22nd ( 2005 ) for an average placement of 22. By contrast, DCI BOD are currently looking at a SCV whose similar last 4 years of DCI placements are 2nd ( 2017 ), 1st ( 2018 ), 3rd ( 2019 ), and 5th ( 2022 ) for an average placement of 2.7. Also for context, it was just a few years after DCI in 2005 suspended the Troopers, that the elite 7 Corps in DCI at that time ( 2010 ) were making their case that they certainly believed that" rank had its privileges" .Those on here that were around then likely recall this as well. Edited November 27, 2023 by Boss Anova 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 12 hours ago, Boss Anova said: My point was to point out that the official DCI website of the Organization itself still shows pretty clearly at the moment that SCV is a member of the World Class Division of DCI. Show me where that is. All I see is that under the "Corps" heading, SCV is one of 22 "World Class" corps. Nothing is stated or implied about "member" status for any of those corps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Anova Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: Show me where that is. All I see is that under the "Corps" heading, SCV is one of 22 "World Class" corps. Nothing is stated or implied about "member" status for any of those corps. (Well ask nicely)... The DCI official website has a section on " who we are "... then another section listing the Corps as to who they are in Drum Corps international. I guess its up to interpretation that if we list a Corps under World Class Corps Division that such Corps are " members of DCI ". I would think so, and I would think that folks visiting the DCI official website that are not as experienced with nuance as we here might be, would also likely conclude that a Corps listed on DCI's website as a World Class DCI Division Corps are a " member Corps " currently in DCI. Similarly, when a staffer is still listed on a Corps website, it is assumed that they are a " Member of that Corps staff". At least thats my interpretation when I look at Corps and DCI's websites anyway regarding who the members are in in their organizations. Edited November 27, 2023 by Boss Anova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 (edited) "Member" in DCI terms is more specifically geared to voting rights and payment structure for performance. Vanguard will have neither for the upcoming year, but they are still an active organization who will be on tour next summer (unless someone outside of DCI has something to say about it). Using the WaybackMachine, I found DCI's site from May, 2006, and Troopers still show as a "Member Corps" for that season, despite the fact that they had been disallowed from touring. Edited November 27, 2023 by Slingerland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Anova Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Slingerland said: "Member" in DCI terms is more specifically geared to voting rights and payment structure for performance. Vanguard will have neither for the upcoming year, but they are still an active organization who will be on tour next summer (unless someone outside of DCI has something to say about it). Using the WaybackMachine, I found DCI's site from May, 2006, and Troopers still show as a "Member Corps" for that season, despite the fact that they had been disallowed from touring. Cadets were also suspended by DCI , but also were listed as a " Member Corps of DCI ". DCI's CEO Dan Acheson was instrumental in selecting the new Cadets BOD after the Hopkins fiasco that led to the resignation removal of the entire Cadets BOD under Hopkins in 2018 I believe I read/ heard that a current lawsuit re. sexual assault by a former staff member of the Cadets from the early 1980's is naming DCI organization as a co defendant party in their lawsuit. If so, the plaintiffs in that lawsuit must believe that DCI has a member Corps that includes ( in their legal view ) the responsibility of oversight of its member Corps, despite whatever current and former status might be claimed by the organization of its member Corps. This is where lawyers and courts have to determine what responsibility, if any, an organization such as DCI can legally distance itself and claim immunity protection from actions and behaviors from any of its member Corps listed on its institutional, official website. Edited November 27, 2023 by Boss Anova 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts