MikeD Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 Mod hat here. Please refrain from making derogatory comments about others who are posting. We want to keep the thread open, but personal attacks on posters goes against DCP guidelines. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: So that would be a budget of one million…. Yes, approximately $1 million in expenses and $1.3 in revenue in 2021 https://apps.irs.gov/pub/epostcard/cor/850545477_202110_990_2022052420131358.pdf Note that the "previous year" numbers are wonky because it ran from April to November due to the split from YEA (and also, it was 2020), so not a great comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 14 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: So when did this get into a mind reading discussion…. am I wrong? My money is on no because electronics and props is always the first thing attacked by the dinos when financial issues are the focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabMaster Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 18 minutes ago, ContraFart said: Why does this conversation always devolve into issues about cost, and revenue is ignored? Bob Cook tried to give this lesson 40 years ago and he was ignored. There needs to be innovation in the revenue model. That right there cannot be overstated. Creation of sustainable revenue streams is lacking in many orgs. Reliance on only a few sources of revenue is not sustainable. Diversify the portfolio. Expand the BoD’s to expand diversity in fundraising and creativity in fundraising. It’s what you would do with your personal wealth management, why wouldn’t the same thinking apply to corps financial resources? Then manage it with smart spending. Live within your means. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vuitton Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) 47 minutes ago, ContraFart said: Again you are taking the smallest line item in the budget and saying it's the biggest problem, when the real issue is that you just don't like props and electronics and think that drum corps should be what it was 40 years ago. I like props and electronics (and trombones - I love them), but all these things add up. They increase not only equipment costs, but transportation costs (as more space is needed to lug these things around all season). IMO DCI needs to get back to the basics - no props, no electronics. I realize this is a small piece of the problem, but everything adds up. Between those costs, new uniforms every year, and the huge staffs it costs so much to run a corps. DCI needs to dial it down and these top corps need to start being more concerned about their health and the overall health of the activity rather than just winning. Vanguard was just the beginning, Cadets are the continuation. If people think it's only going to happen to them they are gravely mistaken. The way the activity is run today just isn't sustainable. Edited October 14, 2023 by Vuitton 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vuitton Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 1 hour ago, scout9193 said: Here’s a hot take… I feel like there was a Rubicon that was crossed in 2016 because of the bluecoats. I like the organization of enjoy their shows but what they did in 2016 with all the extra things on the field i.e. the big skateboard ramps, and all the extra equipment they had. That stuff cost money both to purchase and carry around, they were rewarded for that but then it became. Let’s keep up with the Joneses and the activity we saw scaffolding, huge ramps, platforms, any number of things obviously the stuff has to be carried around and maintained along with all the electronics. Probably not a popular opinion, but it seem like the measuring stick changed to try to keep up with that sort of thing. This started WAY before the 2016 Bluecoats. This started in the 70s. Corps like 27th Lancers and Bridgemen (and a whole slew of others) went bankrupt trying to win. It's all about winning, and for decades corps had to spend a crap ton of money to win. DCI would do itself of favor if it implemented policies making props and electronics illegial in the activity, creating a maximum staff number and implimenting a maximum annual spend. These are just ideas and they may be stupid, but something has to be done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, ContraFart said: am I wrong? My money is on no because electronics and props is always the first thing attacked by the dinos when financial issues are the focus. Not all “dinos” think alike is my point. Not all want to go back to the show style of their youth. And many “dinos” understand this is an issue with many causes. signed/ guy who marched in the 70s/80s. Edited October 14, 2023 by JimF-LowBari 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vuitton Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 2 hours ago, ContraFart said: In the past 12 hours I think I have seen at least 4 dozen comments on social media on how props and electronics are the reason why corps fold and that is just brain dead wrong. If you want to have a serious conversation about the activity, at least understand the issue. Props and electronics are absolutely part of the problem. There are acquisition costs, maintenence costs (on electronics) and increased transportation costs. Every penny adds up and when you have these additional costs year over year over year it all adds up. Of course it's not the entire problem. Staffing costs are huge. It's like in any profession - you want to win you have to have the best possible team in place the the best possible team costs a crap ton of money. And these corps have HUGE staffs these days. It's gotten out of hand. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vuitton Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 49 minutes ago, ContraFart said: Everything has a cost. Are you saying that the corps have no agency to know that an extra truck is going to add x amount to tour costs? Of course corps understand that, but winning takes precedence over everything, even survival. Since the 70s corps have killed themselves, literally, trying to win! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 2 minutes ago, Vuitton said: I like props and electronics (and trombones - I love them), but all these things add up. The increase not only equipment costs, but transportation costs (as more space is needed to lug these things around all season). IMO DCI needs to get back to the basics - no props, no electronics. I realize this is a small piece of the problem, but everything adds up. Between those costs, new uniforms every year, and the huge staffs it costs so much to run a corps. DCI needs to dial it down and these top corps need to start being more concerned about their health and the overall health of the activity rather than just winning. Vanguard was just the beginning, Cadets are the continuation. If people think it's only going to happen to them they are gravely mistaken. The way the activity is run today just isn't sustainable. Again I will say like a broken record that those who look at props and electronics as the problem are blaming the smallest line item on the budget. New uniforms are a negligible cost and are sometimes even incorporated into member fees. I dont even think Cadets had to pay Stanbury for their uniforms last year. Instruments are purchased at wholesale and can even be sold for a small profit. Staffs are huge in number, but they are changed in and out all summer and there at most 15-20 staff on tour at any given time. Staffs do not tour all summer like they used to. I think we need to realize that no 2 situations are exactly the same. Yes the costs of tour are high, but that does not mean the model is unsustainable. It means that the corps need to rethink the revenue model of the activity. There is no silver bullet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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