drumcorpsfever Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 46 minutes ago, scout9193 said: Let me be clear and I know my comment probably seems to point fingers. I’m a fan of the Bluecoats but I think it Has to be recognized that the direction they moved the direction that others felt compelled to try to keep up with the stay relevant and competitive 2016 as a show that I really enjoy but there were a lot of things that they did that other organizations took note off and said we have to spend money and that I have enough to keep up with it I’ll agree they won props that year. But I don’t think props and electronics are the biggest reason that brought down The Cadets and so many others before them. It’s a crazy expensive touring model, cost to house, feed, and care. Years ago, corps could do weekend shows and mini-tour for regionals. Times have changed and ships sailed long ago. I wish there was a solid answer and remedy. But sustainability in present day DCI is next to impossible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 6 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: Not all “dinos” think alike is my point. Not all want to go back to the show style of their youth. And many “dinos” understand this is an issue with many causes. signed/ guy who marched in the 70s/80s. I agree that not every group is a monolith, but you can readily predict that whenever finances are brought up, props and electronics being the largest problem is always the focus of the conversation and much of that is driven by a distaste for them from a certain portion of the population. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 38 minutes ago, ContraFart said: Again you are taking the smallest line item in the budget and saying it's the biggest problem, when the real issue is that you just don't like props and electronics and think that drum corps should be what it was 40 years ago. I realize this post was not directed toward me... yet. But in anticipation: 1. If the bigger items are essential and cannot be trimmed, then you have to look at the smaller items. 2. When we just had this same discussion on the new DCI CEO thread, I listed a wider variety of non-essentials for consideration. That list included two-month tours, truckloads of pit percussion, and the complete catalog of band brass instrumentation... not just the unlimited electronics and props. The main reason I usually focus on electronics and props is because they seem like the least painful cuts we could make. Prospective marchers will not quit DCI if there are no props/tarps anymore. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ContraFart said: I agree that not every group is a monolith, but you can readily predict that whenever finances are brought up, props and electronics being the largest problem is always the focus of the conversation and much of that is driven by a distaste for them from a certain portion of the population. Ok but keep “not every group is a monolith” in mind when you claim to know another posters opinion. Edited October 14, 2023 by JimF-LowBari 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, Vuitton said: Of course corps understand that, but winning takes precedence over everything, even survival. Since the 70s corps have killed themselves, literally, trying to win! So winning means everything to corps like Music city who had a ton of props? You can look at corps like Crossmen and Madison who had scaled down props that I do not believe needed an extra truck. I think corps are smart enough to know when to scale down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 57 minutes ago, ContraFart said: Everything has a cost. Are you saying that the corps have no agency to know that an extra truck is going to add x amount to tour costs? They might not have the agency to think ahead. You know, about how that extra truck is going to impact costs the next time fuel costs double. Same thinking ahead might not have occurred in the recent past as drivers transitioned from volunteers to hires... or as the need for drivers multiplied when driver hour regulations tightened. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vuitton Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, ContraFart said: Again I will say like a broken record that those who look at props and electronics as the problem are blaming the smallest line item on the budget. New uniforms are a negligible cost and are sometimes even incorporated into member fees. I dont even think Cadets had to pay Stanbury for their uniforms last year. Instruments are purchased at wholesale and can even be sold for a small profit. Staffs are huge in number, but they are changed in and out all summer and there at most 15-20 staff on tour at any given time. Staffs do not tour all summer like they used to. I think we need to realize that no 2 situations are exactly the same. Yes the costs of tour are high, but that does not mean the model is unsustainable. It means that the corps need to rethink the revenue model of the activity. There is no silver bullet. Did you not see where I said (re: props and electronics): "I realize this is a small piece of the problem, but everything adds up." Let's look facts in the face - this activity isn't as popular as it was back in the 70s, 80s or 90s. When I marched it seemed everyone in Madison knew who the Madison Scouts were. There are so many other activities nowadays. There are so many other places to give money to. We are in a different age - no one I knew had a computer in the 80s, we didn't have social media, we weren't in the digital and electronic age. There's not much more corps can do to increase their revenue - there's just not. Therefore, THE solution is cutting costs. I work in finance. I help people with budgeting. I don't say, "Oh, Starbucks is only 2.6% of your budget, don't worry about it. Keep spending your money at Starbucks." I say, "Stop spending money at Starbucks." Every single expense, how great or small, adds up. Edited October 14, 2023 by Vuitton 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 2 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: I realize this post was not directed toward me... yet. But in anticipation: 1. If the bigger items are essential and cannot be trimmed, then you have to look at the smaller items. 2. When we just had this same discussion on the new DCI CEO thread, I listed a wider variety of non-essentials for consideration. That list included two-month tours, truckloads of pit percussion, and the complete catalog of band brass instrumentation... not just the unlimited electronics and props. The main reason I usually focus on electronics and props is because they seem like the least painful cuts we could make. Prospective marchers will not quit DCI if there are no props/tarps anymore. but what would those cuts really do other than hurt the product? You shave 3% off the cost, but do nothing to enhance revenue? This entire argument is based on the wrong premise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vuitton Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 2 minutes ago, ContraFart said: So winning means everything to corps like Music city who had a ton of props? You can look at corps like Crossmen and Madison who had scaled down props that I do not believe needed an extra truck. I think corps are smart enough to know when to scale down Corps are smart enough to know when to scale down? You're commenting on a thread about the Cadets not being able to field a corps in 2024. You've commented on a thread about Vanguard not being able to field a corps in 2023. CLEARLY neither of these corps knew when to scale down or cut costs. I'm talking about the top corps trying to win at all costs. They are the ones spending enormous amounts of money every year - staff, props, electronics, uniforms, travel, gas, etc... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skevinp Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said: Drum corps lost its connection to the community because communities got more diverse with many more things to do. Trying to turn back the clock now isn’t the miracle solution many think. The world has changed Ticket sales remain strong AFAIK, plus movies and Flo watchers now would add something even beyond what we had 20 years ago. So if financial support from the community is down, maybe it is because today’s fan base is more transitory, disappearing long before they accumulate the kind of wealth needed to become big donors. If that is true: - Maybe it is time to stop using strong attendance numbers to mock others for being concerned drum corps is dying. - Maybe it’s time to stop bashing “dinos”. - Maybe more things others can add. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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