Cadets Suspend for 2024

[JimF-LowBari]

9 minutes ago, Fran Haring said:

Yep. My local-circuit junior corps from NJ, 1970s, our director wanted nothing to do with DCI. The corps survived through the 1980 season before disbanding. And DCI was not to blame. The corps simply ran out of money and members. 

And DCI certainly didn’t have a hand in the number of local Senior corps that went under in the 70s and 80s.

[MikeD]

30 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Also contributing was that AL, VFW and city churches were on the decline. Just couldn’t afford to sponsor like they used to and lot of Posts and churches closed nationwide 

The churches started to pull away well before DCI. Holy Name dropped the Cadets in the late 50’s as one. Newark NJ had a few church corps that did not make it to DCI, a couple of them powerhouses in the 50’s and 60’s…St Lucy’s Cadets and the Blessed Sacrament Golden Knights (my favorite corps in the 60’s). Also s GSC corps St Martin’s Troubadors who were disbanded after having an on field fight with St Andrew’s Bridgemen at 1969 GSC champs in Dover. I think Fran’s corps, the Manville Crusaders, started as Sacred Heart Crusaders. That is just a few.

[Boss Anova]

36 minutes ago, MikeD said:

The churches started to pull away well before DCI. Holy Name dropped the Cadets in the late 50’s as one. Newark NJ had a few church corps that did not make it to DCI, a couple of them powerhouses in the 50’s and 60’s…St Lucy’s Cadets and the Blessed Sacrament Golden Knights (my favorite corps in the 60’s). Also s GSC corps St Martin’s Troubadors who were disbanded after having an on field fight with St Andrew’s Bridgemen at 1969 GSC champs in Dover. I think Fran’s corps, the Manville Crusaders, started as Sacred Heart Crusaders. That is just a few.

 Yes . In the beginning,  the Church sponsored Corps were started up to serve the needs of the youth in that parish . As a result , most all of the marchers for many years were from that parish , or at the very least lived in the community the  Parish was in . 
  But many of these Corps in time decided in order to be more competitive in competitions , they decided to take in marchers that were not from the parish and some not from even that community . In no time at all , that accelerated , and before you knew it , lots of the marchers were not from that parish , nor the community . With that, many parishes began to rethink if subsidizing their “ Parish Corps “ where more than half lived in other “ parishes “or other communities was something their parishioners should continue to pay for . The answer increasingly then became “ no “

  .  In addition ,other Parish  Corps themselves  began to unilaterally move away from Church sponsorships and particularly in the late 1960’s away from sponsorships from the Veterans posts in these communities .  Lots of Corps in  the 1960’s either folded or were forced to merge when they had to replace their traditional sources of financing from the parish and/ or the local Veterans posts . A few successfully navigated thru this transition in traditional sponsorships in the 1960’s and early 1970’s  , but the vast majority did not , and folded .

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Boss Anova

[Gantang]

On 10/13/2023 at 7:04 PM, TenHut said:

Come-on now. Blaming Hoppy? Really?

Not 100%, but he held a lot of sway in 2003. There was the Hopkins camp and the Stewart camp. Stewart was deemed a Ludite while people hopped on the Hoppy bullettrain. He led the movement.

[TenHut]

14 minutes ago, Gantang said:

Not 100%, but he held a lot of sway in 2003. There was the Hopkins camp and the Stewart camp. Stewart was deemed a Ludite while people hopped on the Hoppy bullettrain. He led the movement.

I love Garfield, but I certainly wish they would have gone the Stewart route. 

[MikeD]

2 hours ago, Boss Anova said:

 

  .  In addition ,other Parish  Corps themselves  began to unilaterally move away from Church sponsorships and particularly in the late 1960’s away from sponsorships from the Veterans posts in these communities .  Lots of Corps in  the 1960’s either folded or were forced to merge when they had to replace their traditional sources of financing from the parish and/ or the local Veterans posts . A few successfully navigated thru this transition in traditional sponsorships in the 1960’s and early 1970’s  , but the vast majority did not , and folded .

 

The rise of the VFW/AL era of drum corps began after WWII and later Korea. Those vets came home and had children. They joined their local posts and some of those posts started drum corps. By the late 60's, the post members were aging, as were their kids. Membership declined in the posts, as well as the corps, especially the small "mom and pop" corps that were the the parade corps or local level competitive corps, such as the Garden State Circuit in my area. I marched in a parade corps from 64-67 and then a GSC corps in 68-69, before joining Garfield.

I later taught in the GSC in the mid 70's and judged there mid 70's to 80'ish. The circuit was imploding all through that era. Corps would combine just to stay alive. I taught the Wayne Monarchs in 76, who merged with the Greenwood Lake Lakers mid season and became the King's Regiment for a couple of years. They eventually folded a few years later.

Times were changing. The gas crisis in the early/mid 70's...huge inflation late 70's...everything cost more. That drove sponsors away, and corps folded, leaving the relatively few that made it into the 80's. Kids were just not joining these local corps anymore. In NJ, the rise in corps-style marching band provided an alternative for the kids who used to join these corps.

 

[Jeff Ream]

18 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

How much non-local talent was in 73 Anaheim, 73-4 SCV, 75 Madison, etc?

different time and age. far more local options to go to.

 

texas is the holy grail right? look at everyone having camps there. the 2 corps from texas can't get a full roster. so you limit those kids to just those corps, and you put huge dents in every other corps. 

[Jeff Ream]

14 hours ago, ContraFart said:

Yes there are other costs. But my entire point is that if the 30k or so to add the props and additional vehicle are the difference between going on tour and folding, then maybe you shouldn't be going on tour. It's not the props and electronics that are making corps fold.

the 30k adds to other areas though, which are the true cost drivers. adding a vehicle just for props adds the cost of the vehicle and fuel. oh and people to drive it and maintain the props.....gotta pay em something right? oh and feed them. and insure all of it.

 

i'm not saying ban props. not at all. but if one looks at how finance actually works, a small line item one place on the balance sheet can truly add costs to other areas as well. and when selling those props, there's no guarantee you get that full $30k back.....and not enough to cover the other places they added up to costs on the balance sheet.

 

so i write a million dollar mortgage. ok, i get paid and nicely. but so does the processor, the underwriter the closer, the back end fulfillment people doing other tasks along the way. so while people love to blame mortgage originators as over paid ( and really they aren't....that gravy train went away a long time ago...) all of the other parts of the mortgage origination process has costs too.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Jeff Ream

[Jeff Ream]

14 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

It all adds up.  If we want to bring costs down then everything needs to be looked at.  
 

Here is another suggestion- as pit is amplified, cut back on size so there is only one player/part.  So only need 1-2 marimbas, not 5-6.  And so on.  Saves space on truck, and maybe then you need one less truck, which brings costs down. 

and smaller pit size was used as a justification for the proposal to pass. 20 years ago now. and they've only grown in size

[ContraFart]

6 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

the 30k adds to other areas though, which are the true cost drivers. adding a vehicle just for props adds the cost of the vehicle and fuel. oh and people to drive it and maintain the props.....gotta pay em something right? oh and feed them. and insure all of it.

 

i'm not saying ban props. not at all. but if one looks at how finance actually works, a small line item one place on the balance sheet can truly add costs to other areas as well. and when selling those props, there's no guarantee you get that full $30k back.....and not enough to cover the other places they added up to costs on the balance sheet.

 

so i write a million dollar mortgage. ok, i get paid and nicely. but so does the processor, the underwriter the closer, the back end fulfillment people doing other tasks along the way. so while people love to blame mortgage originators as over paid ( and really they aren't....that gravy train went away a long time ago...) all of the other parts of the mortgage origination process has costs too.

My brother is a mortgage originator and I have worked as a processor in the past so I get your analogy

My point is that you do not go from a 5th place corps to inactive because you have props and an extra truck. In these situations there is always something bigger and no cost cutting is going to prevent these situations in the future.