IllianaLancerContra Posted April 6 Author Share Posted April 6 1 hour ago, Terri Schehr said: One more thing… I want to say something about Jeff. Even though he ###### me off sometimes, he was the only one I trusted enough in drum corps besides my husband, that I thought it was ok tell what I knew about Robin and Morgan Larson. Before we talked to Tricia Nadolny anyway. I'm not suggesting that every predator can be caught. Impossible. I had a police officer tell me years ago that they’re lucky to catch one out of one hundred drunk drivers. But he was happy that he could get that one before they hurt someone. The same with this. Ideally you want to catch the predators before they act. But you don’t know that they are predators until they act. So, Corps put procedures in place to make it hard for the predators. But if a predator is determined, they will exploit the flaw in the procedures. What we don’t know is how many less-determined predators were stopped by the procedures - it is difficult to measure prevention. If there was 100% accurate reporting of assaults we could watch the numbers, but we all know that reporting is less than 100% accurate (how much less is open to debate). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 (edited) 2 hours ago, cixelsyd said: All marchers are taking participant safety training. The goal of that should be to ensure that they all know the full spectrum of options available to them. I'm aware. AFAIK, DCI-wide, it's a one hour video created by the USCSS. Great. But as I said when they first implemented it, it's only a start and not nearly enough. We've gotten anon reports that the members themselves have found it ineffective, going so far as to use the term "Safe Sport" as a code word for predators in their midst on tour. It's also not enough if staff aren't reinforcing those reporting channels or don't feel confident using themselves. Or if abusers have managed to weasel their way in still, which happens. Training, especially weak, limited training, is only a small piece of the education pie here. Also, if the training is generic enough to share activity wide, then it's probably not going to point to organization-specific channels. Another problem: the generic training is easy to check off and forget when you're in the moment, facing an abuser or survivor. This is likely why SOA developed their own training in-house, I imagine, because their reporting system is more robust and the generic version wouldn't have helped. And yet, we're still seeing breaks in the system, even if this is a rare case of a false accusation! That's how complicated this work is. Even the work done so far is clearly not enough if we're still getting young members who are potentially only going to social media, or who are asking reddit what they should do. Also, to correct myself: the generic training isn't activity wide, as Terri pointed out in the Cadets bankruptcy thread... It. Is. Not. Good. Enough. Yet. Edited April 6 by scheherazadesghost 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmurrey74 Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 14 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said: I'm aware. AFAIK, DCI-wide, it's a one hour video created by the USCSS. Great. But as I said when they first implemented it, it's only a start and not nearly enough. We've gotten anon reports that the members themselves have found it ineffective, going so far as to use the term "Safe Sport" as a code word for predators in their midst on tour. It's also not enough if staff aren't reinforcing those reporting channels or don't feel confident using themselves. Or if abusers have managed to weasel their way in still, which happens. Training, especially weak, limited training, is only a small piece of the education pie here. Also, if the training is generic enough to share activity wide, then it's probably not going to point to organization-specific channels. Another problem: the generic training is easy to check off and forget when you're in the moment, facing an abuser or survivor. This is likely why SOA developed their own training in-house, I imagine, because their reporting system is more robust and the generic version wouldn't have helped. And yet, we're still seeing breaks in the system, even if this is a rare case of a false accusation! That's how complicated this work is. Even the work done so far is clearly not enough if we're still getting young members who are potentially only going to social media, or who are asking reddit what they should do. Also, to correct myself: the generic training isn't activity wide, as Terri pointed out in the Cadets bankruptcy thread... It. Is. Not. Good. Enough. Yet. The safe sport training is activity wide. As a staff member, the amount of training I receive is far and beyond what I have to do for any other activity I’m involved in. (Coaching youth baseball and volunteering with the high school musicals for set construction). It’s also far more than our 15 minute sexual harassment training taken yearly for work. It’s probably never enough, but there’s frequent reminders, spelled out in my teaching contracts, in separate policy documents. It’s taken very seriously by the two drum corps I have recently taught and I’ve heard no different from my friends and past members teaching across the activity. There’s some people that will never be satisfied or convinced that it’s enough. That’s fine, but it’s a huge improvement over what existed five years ago. I’m not sure what more could be done right now but making the minimum age 18 would be best in my mind. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 11 minutes ago, rmurrey74 said: The safe sport training is activity wide. As a staff member, the amount of training I receive is far and beyond what I have to do for any other activity I’m involved in. (Coaching youth baseball and volunteering with the high school musicals for set construction). It’s also far more than our 15 minute sexual harassment training taken yearly for work. It’s probably never enough, but there’s frequent reminders, spelled out in my teaching contracts, in separate policy documents. It’s taken very seriously by the two drum corps I have recently taught and I’ve heard no different from my friends and past members teaching across the activity. There’s some people that will never be satisfied or convinced that it’s enough. That’s fine, but it’s a huge improvement over what existed five years ago. I’m not sure what more could be done right now but making the minimum age 18 would be best in my mind. Terri literally just confirmed via emails with DCI that it's not activity wide, but okay. I'm honestly glad that it's better than it has been. Great. Nothing I've seen indicates that it's close to other training options available, including the free, multi-hour, text based modules available thru Safe Sport International that you have to test out of. As for some people never being convinced... it's not because we keep moving the goal posts... it's because predators will always seek new ways of breaking into safeguarding systems. They must be updated and improved regularly. This is another SSI principle, not just some arbitrary moving of the goal posts by yours truly. I've done the homework for the last decade so I have a strong sense of what's out there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keystone3ply Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 3 hours ago, Terri Schehr said: One more thing… I want to say something about Jeff. Even though he ###### me off sometimes, he was the only one I trusted enough in drum corps besides my husband, that I thought it was ok tell what I knew about Robin and Morgan Larson. Before we talked to Tricia Nadolny anyway. I'm not suggesting that every predator can be caught. Impossible. I had a police officer tell me years ago that they’re lucky to catch one out of one hundred drunk drivers. But he was happy that he could get that one before they hurt someone. The same with this. In my college days, I was stopped for speeding by a GA State Trooper in the ATL area on I-20. I ask him about all of the other folks passing me. He asked me "when you go fishing, do you catch every fish?" Touché... But he was impressed that my little 4 cylinder could cruise at 88 mph. That was an expensive ticket for a college student. 🚙😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 23 minutes ago, rmurrey74 said: The safe sport training is activity wide. As a staff member, the amount of training I receive is far and beyond what I have to do for any other activity I’m involved in. (Coaching youth baseball and volunteering with the high school musicals for set construction). It’s also far more than our 15 minute sexual harassment training taken yearly for work. It’s probably never enough, but there’s frequent reminders, spelled out in my teaching contracts, in separate policy documents. It’s taken very seriously by the two drum corps I have recently taught and I’ve heard no different from my friends and past members teaching across the activity. There’s some people that will never be satisfied or convinced that it’s enough. That’s fine, but it’s a huge improvement over what existed five years ago. I’m not sure what more could be done right now but making the minimum age 18 would be best in my mind. Do you think it’s enough? How about implementing this policy: there shall be a minimum of TWO adults when in the presence of a sole minor. And, to the corps members, if you EVER come across one adult and one minor alone in private together, you are expected to report it to (insert the correct single point of contact) immediately. All persons will be assumed innocent but out an abundance of caution we will investigate every occurrence. I suppose many will consider this “too hard” to implement. Well, how important to you is the activity’s survival? Would you not take whatever measures are necessary? This is a solid policy that is used in many organizations. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmurrey74 Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 1 minute ago, HockeyDad said: Do you think it’s enough? How about implementing this policy: there shall be a minimum of TWO adults when in the presence of a sole minor. And, to the corps members, if you EVER come across one adult and one minor alone in private together, you are expected to report it to (insert the correct single point of contact) immediately. All persons will be assumed innocent but out an abundance of caution we will investigate every occurrence. I suppose many will consider this “too hard” to implement. Well, how important to you is the activity’s survival? Would you not take whatever measures are necessary? This is a solid policy that is used in many organizations. That policy is already in place. I have to sign my employment agreement with that specially spelled out and covered in training. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmurrey74 Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 19 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said: Terri literally just confirmed via emails with DCI that it's not activity wide, but okay. I'm honestly glad that it's better than it has been. Great. Nothing I've seen indicates that it's close to other training options available, including the free, multi-hour, text based modules available thru Safe Sport International that you have to test out of. As for some people never being convinced... it's not because we keep moving the goal posts... it's because predators will always seek new ways of breaking into safeguarding systems. They must be updated and improved regularly. This is another SSI principle, not just some arbitrary moving of the goal posts by yours truly. I've done the homework for the last decade so I have a strong sense of what's out there. DCI corps all have to adhere to the training guidelines. If one is not, report it. Alumni corps now have to take the same Safesport training. I had friends that participated in the Bluecoats alumni corps. Feel free to confirm with any of those 500 people. I’ll base my knowledge on actual experience of actively teaching in the activity right now. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 4 minutes ago, rmurrey74 said: That policy is already in place. I have to sign my employment agreement with that specially spelled out and covered in training. Fantastic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 20 minutes ago, rmurrey74 said: DCI corps all have to adhere to the training guidelines. If one is not, report it. Alumni corps now have to take the same Safesport training. I had friends that participated in the Bluecoats alumni corps. Feel free to confirm with any of those 500 people. I’ll base my knowledge on actual experience of actively teaching in the activity right now. Then the communication coming out of DCI should be more clear? And this didn't address any of my other concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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