The Anti-Narration BD Thread

[Matt_S]

Neither you or I know how much, if anything, they are spending.

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Exactly true. So why the rush to condemn thousands of band kids in the stands as a bad thing?

But even if the claims in this thread are true, and the band kids aren't paying, remember this: Even the legacy fan of thirty years was once a kid in the stands for the first time, with little money of his own.

[Guest DrumCorpFan]

Exactly true.  So why the rush to condemn thousands of band kids in the stands as a bad thing?

But even if the claims in this thread are true, and the band kids aren't paying, remember this:  Even the legacy fan of thirty years was once a kid in the stands for the first time, with little money of his own.

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I have never condemned having the band kids there, I don't recall anyone condemning it. I encourage it, bring them on. What is being said is that these kids are not spending as much (this is being debated). Shows can be designed such that those kids will still come and many more legacy fans won't consider leaving.

[Matt_S]

OK, so I will ask you the same question...

Given that some people like corps with amps and all people like corps without amps, which makes more sense, to design what some like or what all like?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mike nailed it at the bottom of page 15. It's not about amps, it's about the mindset of many of those who want amps gone. When you look around the stands and see thousands of band kids, it's because they want to see a drum corps show. And that fact hasn't changed, even with the addition of amps. It doesn't incite them into making any threats of boycott. If these kids have that mindset, why don't the "adults"?

Now I know that people of all different generations can be pro-amp or anti-amp, but in general there are two distinct mindsets. One is the recognition that change occurs. Change has always occured. That is not to say that change must be made simply for the sake of change. It is simply the recognition that change occurs, and drum corps as it exists today, the drum corps that they fell in love with, would not exist if change had not occured. A great many changes have occured in every era, even before the idea of DCI was first conceived. If drum corps could be said to have had an original form, that form would have been as unrecognizable in, say, 1970 as it is today. Change made drum corps in the 60's what it was, and change shaped drum corps in the 70's, 80's, 90's, and again in 2004. As a result, each era had a version of drum corps that they could call their own. Those of us who aren't bothered by the presence of amps recognize this process, and realize that the next generation is laying its claim on drum corps, and carrying on the line by making it their own.

The second mindset is reactionary response, the mindset that clearly an activity with amps is "not" drum corps. This is a funny claim, because before amps you could put these same people in a room and they would likely still find a spot where drum corps ceased to be drum corps. For some it would be when the pit was grounded. For others, it would be when guard started dancing. Still others gave up when Bb was introduced. And some undoubtedly gave up when horns added a valve. Now, I know I'm going to hear the line that just because you're against amps doesn't mean you're against all change. That's very true. Every type of person I mentioned had an amount of change that they were willing to accept. But they all had the change that they were simply not willing to accept, either. The anti-ampers might not be against all change, but they are against some change, a very specific change. In other words, they have a version of drum corps that they lay claim to, and they don't want to see that version of drum corps slip away. When they feel their version is threatened, they fight back, as we have seen with the petition, the threats of boycott, and the derogatory words on these boards. Every generation has had its traditionalists, and every change has been met with boycott and exodus. Yet every change has also been accepted, even welcomed, by those from every generation who realize that the activity is whatever we choose to make of it.

Now, ask yourself, which version of drum corps did you like the best? Did you like the rip your face off intensity of the 70's, when if you played it you had to march it? Did you like the artistry and true-to-the-original arranging of the 80's? Did you like drum corps when it was still in G, before 2000? Did you like drum corps when it was still acoustic, before 2004? We all have the version that we are most fond of. But when I look at those bands kids, and especially when I look at the members on the field, I see people who are a part of the activity because they feel the best is yet to come and they want to be a part of it. The anti-ampers had their version of drum corps, which would not have existed but for the changing of the version before. I think the next crop of fans deserves their own version of drum corps as well. And who knows; if you open yourself up a little bit, you might find that you enjoy it. Certainly more people find themselves accepting amps, and even narration, with every passing day.

[bawker]

I think the next crop of fans deserves their own version of drum corps as well.  And who knows;  if you open yourself up a little bit, you might find that you enjoy it.  Certainly more people find themselves accepting amps, and even narration, with every passing day.

Although I am (of course) against amplification, a great post.

However, I just can't find myself supporting the activity like I did even a few years previous. The "fire" just isn't there for me. But, again, that's just me. I've found other things to fill the void...DCA for one (about to get blown away tomorrow night in Winston-Salem. :))

Let me ask this hypothetical, just for conversations sake: When the next "version" of drum corps is put to the Board of Directors for saxophones, or woodwinds to be added (and it will come in the next ten or so years)...is that still drum corps? Or is it marching band? Is drum corps defined by the experience or the instruments (amps nonwithstanding)

In other words, how far do we go before we lose the identity and what made then idiom unique?

(P.S. Mike, you stay out of this. I already know your answer! :P ^0^ )

[geluf]

In truely technical terms, it is defined by the instrumentation. It doesn't make a lick of difference what "emotion" or "attachment" or what kind of "experience" it is. What it is called should reflect its actual instrumentation.

Therefor, the addition of woodwinds means that it should be called "Marching Band" because that is the correct instrumentation for it. Cold, hard fact.

[Matt_S]

Actually, I would agree with Mike. Think about how arbitrary our activity is in the first place. Sure, it had a start somewhere, with military origins, but it's come so far since then that the two activities would look hardly anything alike if paired together. For one thing, drum corps even started out with woodwinds, back when it was drum and fife. Ultimately, drum corps is whatever we choose it to be.

[bawker]

  Ultimately, drum corps is whatever we choose it to be.

Problem is that at the DCI baskin-Robbins only about 20 or so people get to pick the flavors for all the rest of us. :P

Anyway, I digress...back to work. :)

[Jeff Ream]

Often in these threads, those of us who oppose amplification and narration are told, in no uncertain terms, to "get over it," go away, stop attending shows, etc. -- in short, we either buy into everything that is put before us or not.  We are expendable. 

To date, I have continued to support corps and DCI, despite the fact that many of the recent changes have, in my opinion, seriously compromised the very nature of what I hold to be drum and bugle corps.  However, I have almost reached my limit.  My tolerance is coming to an end.  I am on the verge of abandoning the activity which I have been a part of for over 20 years.  If I walk away, I will supposedly be replaced by one of the many new, young fans that clamor to DCI events and are so eager to take up the slack created by the demise of older legacy fans.  I hope that is the case but, I will watch with great interest to see my Platinum Membership in the Friends of DCI matched by a 14 year old from Texas; I'll look to see how many band kids are able to afford the Super Premium 3-day pass I purchase for finals; I'll be curious to find out how many youngsters have the funds and abilities to travel to Louisville, San Antonio, Indianapolis, Murfreesboro, Kalamazoo, and numerous other locations in one summer in support of corps; and I'll wonder what parent will shell out hundreds of dollars every summer so his/her child can purchase a t-shirt, hat, CD, or souvenier wind chime from practically every corps in the activity.

Yes, it is important to cultivate new fans and to excite them.  However, is it necessary to alienate so many in the process?  Is it wise to bite the hand that feeds you?

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i have said that many times. they don't seem to care sadlly. i know i found many fun uses for my former Friends money

[Jeff Ream]

I'm still not sold on the idea that DCI is alienating such a large base as you seem to indicate.  I saw 14,000 fans at San Antonio, the highest turnout ever for that event.  I do see a lot of commentary from people who dislike amplification, but to me it seems to be centered around a handfull of key individuals as opposed to some large contingent.

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funny they seemed to say 18k 2 years ago.

so which is it?

[Jeff Ream]

OK...he has his own vision, absolutely true. My point is that anti-Hoppy folks here make it appear that he all by his lonesome wanted/pushed amps, and that is just not true. The creative staffs wanted them for as along as he was proposing them. Finally, enough voting admin members agreed. Times change, and so does the voting population. I have no problem with anyone bringing up a proposal multiple times, whatever it might be, because every year the voting situation might be different as membership turns over.

Mike

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so why is it evil when we bring up how much we hate amps, yet it's ok when he proposes #### to make DCI Boa Summer division?