paparazzi Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 When I got turned on to Gordon Goodwins Big Phat band, I was totally blown away by how freakin good they were, perhaps the best big band I've ever heard. They were ooooo so in tune, so precise and man they can swing. Then I recently found some old Don Ellis, a favorite band from what seems a long time ago. Listen to tunes like Bulgarian Bulge and they have this wild, untamed sound. Man, it was exciting to listen to (over and over again). Sort of like Dizzy and Wynton. Wynton kicks some serious a## but when you hear Dizzy fly, heaven. So back to drum corps land. I've really wanted to like the latest greatest and leave my "wussy back in my day when leg lift meant something" mentality, but frankly, it leaves me cold. Granted, I'm talking mostly about Jr. corps, which has "evolved". I like the sound of a bugle, better yet, I like the sound of lots of bugles. Wait, lots of bugles playing loud, or heaven forbid, lots and lots of bugles playing loud and sounding like they're having fun doing it. That's why I love drum corps. I like the way a G horn cuts though, even if it is a little messy, drum corps, IMHO, isn't about pretty. So if progress means corps is going to sacrifice some loud for quality, I can understand the logic. There's no denying what you as educated technicians and master players know to be true. But I fear that in doing so, we'll lose a little bit of soul in the process, a little bit of tradition, a little bit of what makes corps sound different from a band. My apologies to Mr. Lips if I veared away from his original intent, but in art, aesthetics are just as important as technique. So if it's a B flat line and they play with soul and energy, I gots no problem with that. I just hope there's always room for a little Don Ellis once in awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow_7 Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Chicago Symphony brass sectionMaynard Furgueson Chase Tower of Power Rush 311 Of course most of those use AMPS and TROMBONES, and dare I say it Saxophones. Nuff said.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubajoe Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 When I got turned on to Gordon Goodwins Big Phat band, I was totally blown away by how freakin good they were, perhaps the best big band I've ever heard. They were ooooo so in tune, so precise and man they can swing. Then I recently found some old Don Ellis, a favorite band from what seems a long time ago. Listen to tunes like Bulgarian Bulge and they have this wild, untamed sound. Man, it was exciting to listen to (over and over again). Sort of like Dizzy and Wynton. Wynton kicks some serious a## but when you hear Dizzy fly, heaven.So back to drum corps land. I've really wanted to like the latest greatest and leave my "wussy back in my day when leg lift meant something" mentality, but frankly, it leaves me cold. Granted, I'm talking mostly about Jr. corps, which has "evolved". I like the sound of a bugle, better yet, I like the sound of lots of bugles. Wait, lots of bugles playing loud, or heaven forbid, lots and lots of bugles playing loud and sounding like they're having fun doing it. That's why I love drum corps. I like the way a G horn cuts though, even if it is a little messy, drum corps, IMHO, isn't about pretty. So if progress means corps is going to sacrifice some loud for quality, I can understand the logic. There's no denying what you as educated technicians and master players know to be true. But I fear that in doing so, we'll lose a little bit of soul in the process, a little bit of tradition, a little bit of what makes corps sound different from a band. My apologies to Mr. Lips if I veared away from his original intent, but in art, aesthetics are just as important as technique. So if it's a B flat line and they play with soul and energy, I gots no problem with that. I just hope there's always room for a little Don Ellis once in awhile. WOW, great post! You've brought the thread back... The man hit the NAIL ON THE proverbial HEAD SOUL but here is the question [rhetorical of course] Does a certain horn give you more soul? Does a lack of amps? (ha ha ha ha) for that matter (yes, I am egging you folks on) I think we are all on the same page here... even my pals in the Renegades, who I respect a lot (Jim McFarland taught me SO much way back when...) We are trying to hold desperately onto the SOUL of drum corps. And yes, I will be the first (or second or 30080th) to say, and I think we can all agree that DCI has lost a certain amount of its soul... and yes that is a reason for concern in DCA. BUT is it the equipment that causes something to have or not have that soul? #### no. Reading had TONS of soul last year. That's why they won. See, the system still works :) I think everything is ok, Bb or G, I really do! Until 2004 I knew nothing of DCA, I had only worked in DCI -- upon entering I was SO impressed with the vibe of DCA... why? SOUL. right on. Ding ding ding. Give Paparazzi a beer. He said what we've all been trying to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Sometimes I feel kinda New Yorker, this time I was feeling a bit New York Post. :P you felt like you wanted to line a bird cage? :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 I just hope there's always room for a little Don Ellis once in awhile. Check out CorpsVets last year. Don Ellis on G's; however, if you read the entire thread, I've heard our charts were "watered down" :P . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Check out CorpsVets last year. Don Ellis on G's; however, if you read the entire thread, I've heard our charts were "watered down" :P . Inquiring minds want to know......... If Strawberry Soup wasn't watered down wouldn't it be Strawberry Stew? :P Well anyway I'll bet that string section on the Ellis Tears of Joy album couldn't march a lick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ithacaguy Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 (edited) There are a lot of wonderful points that have been discussed on this thread. First, I think that for a lot of corps the financial reasons were paramount in their minds. It wasn't fiscally responsible to purchase another set of G horns. Having marched only G in DCA and DCI I do know what it is like to manage a G bugle. The sound is open, and raw and the sops do pop in the upper register. But now that I instruct a junior Bb line I can really see and hear improvements. Second, Here is my suggestion for a horn line.... Trumpets/Sops in G Mello is F Bari/Euph in Bb Tuba/Contra in Bb A quick story.... I was on the road last summer and as I was walking down the stands after our performance I saw a middle aged gentleman sitting down, furrowing his brow and not clapping like the 2000 others around him screaming their heads off. I was genuinely interested in why he was not pleased. I stopped and politely introduced myself as a brass instructor for Southwind and asked what he thought of our show. He said "It is trash" I took the bait and asked why. He told me that because the corps was playing Bb horns he refused to clap or applaud because he believed that you could only appreciate drum corps in G. I said I was very sorry and I told him to enjoy the rest of the show. I'm sure he never clapped, because nobody was on G horns that night... My only beef with this argument is that occasionally we take it too far. If you are not a supporter of Bb that is your opinion, but please don't take it out on members of any corps. 1. it is not their decision which key they are in 2. they work hard to entertain and perform for you I hope I was able to shed a little bit of insight into this discussion. I love drum corps, period. And I am sure that before I die, there will be many more changes that I may or may not agree with. But the one thing that connects all brethren of drum corps is the common bond of hard work, long days, sweaty nights and the memories of a lifetime. No Bb, G, Amps, 3 Dimensional Drill, Flying Color Guard or whatever the drum corps path has in store of us will ever take that experience away. Edited December 8, 2005 by ithacaguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomnoise Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 (edited) I find it interesting that there are so many people on this thread (pros, even) that can't hear the difference between the sound of a G hornline and a non-G line. To me, it is obvious. Jay (paparazzi) makes a great point, and I agree - the soul of the activity. There are many threads on DCP that discuss this. With the introduction of band instruments (not used in a perjorative sense, just to indicate non-G horns, which are not played outside of the 20 or so groups that play them on the field), it causes us all to ask the question: What IS unique about drum corps? Physically, it is summer, long hours (for Junior corps at least) and no woodwinds or synths. For the most part, the members are older. Although maybe not in DCA these days. ^0^ (just kidding) Other than that, we have the intangible side - our hard-core attitude. The soul. Many folks have pointed out that the differences are fading and the lines are blurring. And it's true. Marching Bands are much better than they were just a decade ago. So are drum corps. I still love the summer groups, but having spent two seasons directing a decent marching band and a decent drum corps, I am seeing very little difference between the two. My band kids work harder than my drum corps, but my drum corps blows the band off the field in terms of power and performance. Boith are dedicated and put their entire being into what they do. What do you folks think? What is unique about drum corps? Edited December 8, 2005 by randomnoise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyp Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 What is unique about drum corps? Drum corps is evil.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 hey no one's asking for woodwinds or amps so it's all good Clears throat....."Ahem"....I'd love to see......never mind! :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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