DrumCorpsFan27 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 True enough. But I could just see something like Phantom beating BD in 03 with a fan-judging system, and that's just not right. Why not? Why shouldn't a corps get credit for communicating with an audience better than another? Why should a champion be based on mostly technical aspects? Why can't both be incorperated into the scoring system? What's wrong with the best of both worlds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumCorpsFan27 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 In reality, don't the fans express their "score" at every show now just bytheir reaction of screaming, applauding, stomping, and every now and then throwing babies? I just wish the GE guys would take notice of those babies and show it on their sheets. The thing that has bugged me the most about DCI judging (and BOA for that matter) is their idea of General Effect seems to have little to do with audience reaction...which I thought was the real goal of performing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumCorpsFan27 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Except if it was just one show...I don't see a corps doing "stuff" just for that single event, outside of some sort of one-time gimmick. Very true. You would still get the same show as for the judged competitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMello1 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 (edited) In reality, don't the fans express their "score" at every show now just bytheir reaction of screaming, applauding, stomping, and every now and then throwing babies? Yes. Good point. I just wish the GE guys would take notice of those babies and show it ontheir sheets. How do we know that they aren't doing this? But we also need to understand that strong reactions happen in a lot of different ways, not just jumping up and down and screaming. Corps don't always look to get that reaction out of an audience. Part of General Effect is communicating a range of emotions, and attempting to provoke a variety of reactions. Just because someone is not clapping or screaming does not mean they aren't moved or engaged in a performance. How would an audience-based judging system take this into account? A fan based judging system would be prone to fraud and regional biases. These are things outside of DCI's control. What we have now attempts to remove these things and replace them with an analytical, non-biased and objective system. Let's also not forget that the judges are audience members too, and have their own reactions to what they are seeing/hearing. The difference between them and us is they are trained to recognize their reactions and analyze what they are reacting to and why. The thing that has bugged me the most about DCI judging (and BOA forthat matter) is their idea of General Effect seems to have little to do with audience reaction...which I thought was the real goal of performing. No offense...but have you read the criteria for DCI's general effect captions? For many years, the GE caption was heavily analytical, and the distinction between ensemble and effect was blurred. DCI has, in recent years, emphasized a reactionary approach to the caption. Recently, this approach has helped to distinguish effect from ensemble. Words like Creativity, Imagination, Artistry, Climaxes, Cummincation, Emotional Range, Spirit and ENTERTAINMENT all appear in bold type on the front of the GE sheet (there are more...these are what I remember off the top of my head). These are the elements the judges are reacting to and evaluating. (someone more knowledgable about this please clarify and fix anything I got wrong). Would you agree that these words describe the elements of a performance or design that engage the audience? My point: general effect DOES take into consideration how an audience is engaged in a performance. That is the basis for the entire caption philosophy. My $.03 M Edited January 5, 2006 by OMello1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Why not? Why shouldn't a corps get credit for communicating with an audience better than another? Why should a champion be based on mostly technical aspects? Why can't both be incorperated into the scoring system?What's wrong with the best of both worlds? Communication is a part of the GE sheet...note the word 'part'....also, communication is far more than merely the type of reaction being thrown around here...the "applause-o-meter" kind of thing. So...what is being discussed here is basing an entire competition result on one small aspect of one word on one caption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srmumz Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Am I missing something? But don't the best entertaining Corps (plural) place at the top now? Exhibitions were fun, and yes we did let it hang out a little more than normal. But that was under the old "tick" system, and now without that in place what is keeping EVERY Corps from optimizing every show whether judged or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumCorpsFan27 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Yes. Good point.How do we know that they aren't doing this? But we also need to understand that strong reactions happen in a lot of different ways, not just jumping up and down and screaming. Corps don't always look to get that reaction out of an audience. Part of General Effect is communicating a range of emotions, and attempting to provoke a variety of reactions. Just because someone is not clapping or screaming does not mean they aren't moved or engaged in a performance. How would an audience-based judging system take this into account? A fan based judging system would be prone to fraud and regional biases. These are things outside of DCI's control. What we have now attempts to remove these things and replace them with an analytical, non-biased and objective system. Let's also not forget that the judges are audience members too, and have their own reactions to what they are seeing/hearing. The difference between them and us is they are trained to recognize their reactions and analyze what they are reacting to and why. No offense...but have you read the criteria for DCI's general effect captions? For many years, the GE caption was heavily analytical, and the distinction between ensemble and effect was blurred. DCI has, in recent years, emphasized a reactionary approach to the caption. Recently, this approach has helped to distinguish effect from ensemble. Words like Creativity, Imagination, Artistry, Climaxes, Cummincation, Emotional Range, Spirit and ENTERTAINMENT all appear in bold type on the front of the GE sheet (there are more...these are what I remember off the top of my head). These are the elements the judges are reacting to and evaluating. (someone more knowledgable about this please clarify and fix anything I got wrong). Would you agree that these words describe the elements of a performance or design that engage the audience? My point: general effect DOES take into consideration how an audience is engaged in a performance. That is the basis for the entire caption philosophy. My $.03 M But GE is for how those ideas work for the judges and not necessarily the audience. Music is performance for others. That should carry a much bigger part of the scoring. Instead, it seems that DCI (directors and designers) sets up a system that only a certain few can appreciate. In other words, show design has become elitist. They are only concerned in impressing each other, not the paying audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumCorpsFan27 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Communication is a part of the GE sheet...note the word 'part'....also, communication is far more than merely the type of reaction being thrown around here...the "applause-o-meter" kind of thing. So...what is being discussed here is basing an entire competition result on one small aspect of one word on one caption. I think communication should be a bigger part. Yes, a wide range of "colors" and "emotions" need to be displayed by the corps. However, the paying public would like to see more "applause-o-meter" type of design. That's not to say eliminate the other emotions, just give us more of what we are asking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigadier80 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I agree with you completedly. If you remove judging and scores much of the excitment and motivation that comes with competition would be erased. The season would be like one long exhibition. I personally think attendance would go down. I don't go to a baseball game to simply watch two teams play so I can be entertained. I go to see my team WIN!! While I enjoy watching and applauding the efforts of each and every corps I see, utlimately I want MY corps to win! I could be in the minority here though! b**bs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 i think for one show...like the masters of the summer music games...have a no rules exhibition...no judges...no rules,, and let the fans decide the winner. DCM tried that at a couple shows last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.