Once upon a time, in a land far away (called Indiana)

[aatlb25]

!!!!!!!!! i love star of indiana and the cadets. i dont really care! whatever they are, was, will become. two astounding corps.

I would also like to take time to stop everything and second you on this :P

[torn8o]

!!!!!!!!! i love star of indiana and the cadets. i dont really care! whatever they are, was, will become. two astounding corps.

I agree 100%. I just hope that whatever they will become, they will find the appropriate venue to be what they become. :) If they continue to be a drum corps. I hope they stay in DCI and continue to give us the kind of great shows they have always given us. If they choose to be a band, I hope that they use their assets in USSBA to their fullest to be that great superband - or perform exhibitions at DCI shows OR BOTH (hey that's even better). Just please don't go trying to convert DCI into a band activity is all I ask.

Edited March 6, 2006 by torn8o

[audiodb]

Well, you get new folks coming in and adding their $0.02 all the time...this tends to start the engines running on these topics again.

Yes. And the old threads usually aren't around anymore, so we end up repeating much of the discussion over again.

Mike will go on about how he is in favor of "anything goes" (summer marching band), and that it must be a DCI division.

I will go on about how summer marching band needs to have it's own independent organization, for it's own sake as well as that of drum corps.

He won't change my mind. I won't change his.

But we will give other folks a lot to think about as they formulate their opinions....

[torn8o]

My preference is for DCI to create an "anything goes" division where any corps/band can compete using any instrumentation and membership quantity they desire.

No corps that wants to remain brass/percussion has to join that division, unless they want to, of course.

You know? On the surface, that sounds like a pretty reasonable and harmless idea. Perhaps it's because this thought gives me flashbacks to when DCW did something very similar in the early to mid 90s with their "youth band divisions". What gives me second thoughts on DCI doing it is that in the context of Mr. Hopkins' agenda, it would APPEAR that the superbands would be the BIG major division (i.e. Divison Oneish) and the drum corps the smaller. If that happens, it would kill the drum corps activity and all units would have to gravitate to the use of woodwinds to be successful just as corps are now having to do with amplification (which as I said is not a problem for me like woodwinds are). This of course would be the opposite of what DCW did which was "Divison I, then Division II, then division III then the youth bands". Youth bands were at the bottom of the pole. What Mr. Hopkins idea APPEARS to want (based on the proposal of 1997) is for the "anything goes/superbands" to be the big shots. That's where I check out - leading me back to saying that bands should have their own seperate place outside of the drum corps arena...

...ESPECIALLY...hear this one out please...ESPECIALLY when certain figures in DCI have suggested that DCI corps and DCA corps should remain in seperate arenas from each other. Think about that. Many DCI figures have made it very clear (as have other people on here to me) that their should be no partnerships between the DCI and DCA activity. Would it really be fair then for DCI to shove senior corps out but accept marching bands in? Think about that one. Here you have DCA who does "Drum Corps" (with more in common with DCI than people want to realize) and people say that "they should remain in their own seperate place". Then you have marching band (which though has definite things in common is really COMPLETELY different in nature and character) and people are saying "oh yeah, bring em over and we will be one big happy family". That sounds like a double standard to me. Actually, worse. It sounds BACKWARDS! Drum corps should be in the arena of other drum corps regardless of age. Bands should be in the arena of other bands PERIOD!

Edited March 7, 2006 by torn8o

[HylianHero]

You know, I used to be 100% against woodwinds, but lately, I've been turning around. I would go see DCI if there were woodwinds. If there were, it might even make it *gasp* possibly more exciting. Just because it's tradition doesn't mean that it has to stay that way. Nothing has stayed the same for hundreds of years. Should we still make cars with the rigid frame because that's how they used to make them. No. They make them safer. I completely agree with MikeD, this started decades ago, and it should be allowed to continue. I'm a brass player, and rather enjoy a good woodwind sound occasionally, there's nothing wrong with that.

[JTE]

Can someone explain to me why one person holds so much sway over an organisation? If one person wants to change and that proposal for change gets ratified, that would suggest that there is a consensus that agrees that it should happen.

I do not like the direction suggested by that one person but am confused as to why it gets so much airing in public. Is this person able to make their vision a reality or is DCI a democratic process.

Somebody help!

This was Bill Cook’s explanation.

"DEFINITIONS

Drum Corps -- A group of individuals banded together by a precise, musical genre. The style (idiom, or genre) is specifically defined by the musical arrangements that are played on brass and percussion instruments. The musical arrangements are visually enhanced through the use of precision motion (marching) and props including colorful flags, rifles, and backdrops.

Discussion: The idiom is expressed through the arrangement of the music, the brass and percussion instruments used, and the visual elements provided to interpret the music. A drum corps performance is designed by the arrangers and designers to be exciting or to arouse emotion. The idiom may be performed in parades, football fields, theaters, or any area large enough to enable movement within the corps. It may be competitive but not necessisarily.

Committee -- A group of indecisive individuals formed to collectively make decisions.

Discussion: Because consensus of several individuals is difficult (impossible) to reach and because the obvious or safe decision is accepted with little insight or vision, lethal when starting a drum corps. Committees are comprised of a few dedicated individuals and a few 'experts' who are rarely committed. Committees create divisiveness and perpetuate a loss of vision. They exist only because individuals are taught that consensus is more important than making the right decision.

Dictator -- An individual with implied or absolute authority--sometimes called an executive director or sponsor.

Discussion: A dictator is responsible for all decisions and acts of a drum corps. He/she has a vision where the organization is going and how to get the organization to the destination. A dictator must be benevolent or ruthless, keeping in mind that survival of the organization is more important than any individual. A dictator cannot share power; he/she consolidates it.

Executive Director -- A person who has implied or absolute authority--a dictator.

Discussion: An executive director governed by a board of directors is doomed to failure. For legal purposes, an executive director must have his/her acts approved by a board of directors but only once a year. An executive director should select his/her board of directors and not the reverse. An executive director governs all matters of a drum corps.

You can read more if you like at

so you want to start a drum corps?

Im not sure if this is the same of that "other" corps but I do think it sheds some light on how to get things done...

[bawker]

So, in an nutshell, are you saying that Dan Acheson needs to have final say?

'Cause, actually, I can go with that...it would certainly make a lot of the subterfuge of commitee/sub-commitee disappear.

Then, we only have one person to blame. :P

[DrumCorpsFan27]

So, what's my point? My point is, if a certain director on the east coast wants to change the direction of his corps to be a "super band", stop wasting precious DCI meeting time with trying to get the ENTIRE ACTIVITY to go this direction. Instead, follow the example of Jim Mason and do so on your own terms. My gosh, you have the FANTASTIC USSBA circuit ready and sizzling for it. DO IT!!! I'll support you and the summer band activity on it 100%. I'll be the biggest fan. But, stop trying to get an entire already existing activity to change to a band activity just because YOU want to do band. That's not fair to the rest of those people who still want drum corps to exist. Would the Cadets be missed in Drum Corps? Tearfully so. Every bit as much as Star was and still is. Though, who is to say we can't have special appearances of the Cadet Super band as exhibitions at DCI shows! Didn't Mr. Hopkins even say once that he WANTED to do that someday! All the pieces are in place. YEA and USSBA are a dream turned into reality. You don't need DCI to become a band circuit. You already have one. Take the next step with it.

This in no way is meant to be a bash on Mr. George Hopkins (and I hope this thread doesn't turn into that). I have an amazing amount of respect for Mr. Hopkins and what he has done for the drum corps activity. You should respect him too. I just think that it's not right to force an activity to be something that one person wants it to be just because it's what he wants his own unit to be. That's not fair IMO.

***getting down from my soap box***

...and the post of the decade goes to torn8o!!!

[torn8o]

You know, I used to be 100% against woodwinds, but lately, I've been turning around. I would go see DCI if there were woodwinds. If there were, it might even make it *gasp* possibly more exciting. Just because it's tradition doesn't mean that it has to stay that way. Nothing has stayed the same for hundreds of years. Should we still make cars with the rigid frame because that's how they used to make them. No. They make them safer. I completely agree with MikeD, this started decades ago, and it should be allowed to continue. I'm a brass player, and rather enjoy a good woodwind sound occasionally, there's nothing wrong with that.

Me too. I enjoy a good woodwind sound myself. That's why I look forward to marching band season every year. But, if DCI added woodwinds - where would I go to be able to look forward to drum corps?

Aside from that, let's get back to innovation. I'm all about it. What would be innovative about adding woodwinds? To translate that question to have a less broad response (which would be inevitable and predictable from people like Mike)...what could be done that has not already been done in drum corps by adding woodwinds that hasn't or couldn't AND MIGHT EVEN SOON be done by bands?

Sorry, I think adding woodwinds would be suicide to a great activity. it doesn't need to happen. There are already great band activities and COULD BE EVEN MORE (i.e. a summer USSBA superband activity). Let drum corps be drum corps. PLEASE!!!!! PLEASE!!!!! I'M BEGGGING THE POWERS THAT BE!!!!!!!!

Edited March 7, 2006 by torn8o

[DrumCorpsFan27]

Star was trashed up and down for abandoning DCI drum corps to go the Brass Theater route.

Nothing wrong with a corps director working within the structure of the DCI activity to put forward the ideas they think best for the future of the drum corps activity. Star was castigated for NOT doing that. Now you hold them up as the model of the "right way to go".

Star did not want to be restricted by the rules of DCI, so they went to where they could follow their vision, leaving everyone else to do as they please within the structure. Mr. Hopkins and friends feel that drum corps must become their vision and everyone else must follow their vision. While he is entitled to put his visions on the table, it doesn't make them right or good. Star ultimately did do the right thing because they did not allow DCI to govern what it does. Hopkins et.al. is trying to govern what ALL of drum corps does. There is a difference.