mark riley Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 This is something that fascinates me, and I wonder what others think..... When I was young, there was a very different relationship between junior and senior (all age) drum corps. For many of us, the transition from marching for a junior corps to "going senior" was something we looked forward to with great anticipation. I'm talking now about the late 60s and early 70s in Connecticut, where I grew up, and in New York, where I later marched. We used to have alumni from corps I marched with come to our rehearsals and develop relationships with the better players so they would go "up the Valley" and march with the Connecticut Hurricanes. Senior corps was something that we as kids aspired to be part of (and not just for the drinking). Corps like the Hurcs, Cabs, and Skyliners used to have huge influxes of kids from corps that broke up during that period (there were many reasons for those breakups, so I'm not talking poaching here). So my question is this.... When did the relationship change? When did junior corps kids start looking at the senior experience as a step down, because it certainly wasn't that way for us. Do they get burned out marching junior, do they really think seniors are to avoided at all costs? Just a question....... Mark Riley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 ir could be a combination of things. as junior corps grew across the country, a lot of kids just never had the option to do senior corps as we were all mostly here in the northeast. but in the 80's it when it started to slide, and it went bad from both directions. yes, kids did burn out. DCI progressed in terms of show design faster than DCA did,and of course the old stereotype about drunks stumbling around the field persisted. regardless of what caused it, the good news is it's getting better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayH Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 [ So my question is this.... When did the relationship change? When did junior corps kids start looking at the senior experience as a step down, because it certainly wasn't that way for us. Do they get burned out marching junior, do they really think seniors are to avoided at all costs? Just a question....... Mark Riley Gee, I never thought going to Sr. corp would be a step "up" while I marched St. Joes-Batavia in the mid-60's. I think it all depended on who you marched with. I certainly wouldn't think Sr. were a step up for anyone who marched with Cavies, Sac, RA, Kilties, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 All I heard about the Jr/Sr connection way back when was the one time we talked to a Hawthorne Muchacho in 1976 or 1977. He was an age-out and we asked if he was going to keep doing corps in a Sr unit. Response was the age-outs continuing were going to the Cabs except for him. He was going to Sky 'case he was sick of "playing that Spanish crap". :P Think Muchachos were sponsored by AL Post #199 so BIG connection there. PS - Don't shoot the messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Drum Corps Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 I agree with Ray H. Going to the Crusaders from St. Joe's was NOT considered a step up. We lived in the city that hosted DCA (Rochester) for many years. And albeit I found the seniors loud and entertaining, I always thought that the quality of performance was less that I was used to from a national finalist junior corps. I also think that is why many of the guys from Rochester went to St. Joe's in the first place, and stayed marching there even after they were supposed to at age 21. Yes, I was blown away by the Cabs, Sky, and at times the Bucs, and the Hurcs, but the juniors had more discipline in my opinion, which included musical discipline. So I dont think that was the case what Mark Riley originally posted. At least not for me and the crew that I hung with in those years. But then again lets face it...the years of a junior corps from parishes and YMCA's and CYO's and Boy Scout troops are long over. Donny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storkysr Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 St. Joes 1971 to CRU 1972 was, for me, a step UP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Gee, I never thought going to Sr. corp would be a step "up" while I marched St. Joes-Batavia in the mid-60's. I think it all depended on who you marched with. I certainly wouldn't think Sr. were a step up for anyone who marched with Cavies, Sac, RA, Kilties, etc. I never thought that either. After the 71 season with Garfield, our drum instructor, George Tuthill, was let go...he was also teaching the Cabs at that time, and a LOT of our drumline left Garfield and joined Hawthorne in su[port of George. I went for a few weeks, but it just was not for me, at that time, so later that winterI rejoined Garfield, as a baritone horn player though, instead of a tri-tom player. None of us saw it as a step up...though we did like the Cabs. Later in the 70's, I would have marched Hawthorne if I had the time...and my wife did not dislike drum corps so much (esp senior). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 (edited) I agree with Mark on this one.... in the NY/NJ/CT metro area, many of us in the smaller, local-circuit junior corps looked at senior corps as a step up, in the early 1970's in my case. Those top senior corps looked larger than life to many of us!!!! Perhaps those who marched in the top juniors (the perennial national finalists like Garfield, Blessed Sac, St. Joe's, etc.) had a different opinion of the seniors. Mark can back me up on this.... I would say the vast majority of the members of the Sunrisers in the 1977-79 time period when I got started there were from smaller, local corps, not from the "big guns" on the junior side. We had a few folks from Bridgemen and others, but a lot of us were from the smaller corps. Heck, my last two years in the Manville Crusaders (1975-76), we didn't break a 60 for a score either year. In local competition. And at the World Open Class A prelims in 1975, we lost to a bunch of corps I hadn't even heard of. In other words, we SUCKED, no doubt about it. My first show in Sunrisers, 1977, we scored something like a 76, and beat the Skyliners by about 10 points. Definitely a step up for me. I gotta admit though... after seeing Mighty St. Joe's for the first time (1970 or '71 World Open... I forget which year).... judging by the size and age of some of those guys, it looked like St. Joe's had a pretty good "senior" corps thing going!!!! LOL Fran Edited May 11, 2006 by Fran Haring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 I agree with Mark on this one.... in the NY/NJ/CT metro area, many of us in the smaller, local-circuit junior corps looked at senior corps as a step up, in the early 1970's in my case. Those top senior corps looked larger than life to many of us!!!!Perhaps those who marched in the top juniors (the perennial national finalists like Garfield, Blessed Sac, St. Joe's, etc.) had a different opinion of the seniors. I agree...it is all where you marched that made the distinction. I am guessing that if I had stayed with my GSC corps (Imperial Guardsmen, 68-69) I would have been amazed at moving directly to the Cabs or another senior corps, nearly as much as I was in joining Garfield for the 1970 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark riley Posted May 12, 2006 Author Share Posted May 12, 2006 I agree with Ray H. Going to the Crusaders from St. Joe's was NOT considered a step up. We lived in the city that hosted DCA (Rochester) for many years. And albeit I found the seniors loud and entertaining, I always thought that the quality of performance was less that I was used to from a national finalist junior corps. I also think that is why many of the guys from Rochester went to St. Joe's in the first place, and stayed marching there even after they were supposed to at age 21. Yes, I was blown away by the Cabs, Sky, and at times the Bucs, and the Hurcs, but the juniors had more discipline in my opinion, which included musical discipline. So I dont think that was the case what Mark Riley originally posted. At least not for me and the crew that I hung with in those years. But then again lets face it...the years of a junior corps from parishes and YMCA's and CYO's and Boy Scout troops are long over. Donny Donny, what you say may be true, but take a quick look at the 2005 Bugler's Hall of Fame Inductees. Many if not most had affiliations with both junior and senior corps. This is especially true of people in the NYC metropolitan area. How many guys went from corps like the Queensmen, Loretto, Selden, Bpt. PAL, St. Raphael's, the Warriors, and others, then went to Sky, Sun, Cabs, Hurcs, etc? This wouldn't be true about the midwest, where the number of senior corps were limited at that time. I was just speaking from my own experience. ....and Fran, as they used to say in Sun, I HEAR YA! Mark Riley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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