Wren PR - Shaw PR comparison

[kdaddy]

Jim Wren arranged American in Paris for Phantom in 1976. It was every bit as good as last year's version.

Wow. I think the 1976 is fine for 1976, but I have to disagree with the second statement.

[PR_ducky]

I marched 86-90 and taught 96 and we did not have significant rewrites any of those years.

Jim is a great arranger and a great guy.

[gellio]

Jim Wren arranged American in Paris for Phantom in 1976. It was every bit as good as last year's version. He was one of the best arrangers in the history of the activity and was able to adapt to different styles in 3 decades. The current guy is good, but he has a *long* way to go to fill Wren's shoes.

Honestly, I don't like Shaw. I think his arrangements are dull and ineffective. That's just my opinion, as a classical music finatic. I feel the '76 version of An American in Paris was WAY WAY WAY better than last years, just as I thought Madison's arrangements of Rhapsody in Blue and An American in Paris were WAY WAY WAY better than last years. Likewise, the '84 opener blows the '06 version away, just as the '86 closer blows the '06 version away. To say I am not impressed with Phantom's musical arrangements for 2005 and 2006 would be a HUGE understatement. It's like the Shaw guy is trying too hard IMO to stand out from these arrangements that have been done so well before. It's a shame, but the 2005 Phantom Regiment was my least favorite Phantom show since 1981 (don't listen to much before that) until the 2006 show. And the 2005 and 2006 shows represent some of my favorite classical pieces. I will give him Ave Maria though - that's beautiful. I just don't care for it...kind of boring if I'm being blunt.

Edited July 28, 2006 by gellio

[The Tsar]

Honestly, I don't like Shaw. I think his arrangements are dull and ineffective. That's just my opinion, as a classical music finatic. I feel the '76 version of An American in Paris was WAY WAY WAY better than last years, just as I thought Madison's arrangements of Rhapsody in Blue and An American in Paris were WAY WAY WAY better than last years. Likewise, the '84 opener blows the '06 version away, just as the '86 closer blows the '06 version away. To say I am not impressed with Phantom's musical arrangements for 2005 and 2006 would be a HUGE understatement. It's like the Shaw guy is trying too hard IMO to stand out from these arrangements that have been done so well before. It's a shame, but the 2005 Phantom Regiment was my least favorite Phantom show since 1981 (haven't heard anything before that) until the 2006 show. And the 2005 and 2006 shows represent some of my favorite classical pieces. I will give him Ave Maria though - that's beautiful. I just don't care for it...kind of boring if I'm being blunt.

Wow. As a musician and classical music fanatic myself, I could not be more diammetrically opposed to your point of view. I think J.D. does a fantastic job, especially last year.

In my opininon, the 1984 version of Scythian is simply not at all in the style of Prokofiev...it jsut doesn't convey any of the "in your face" aggression of the original. I feel the 2006 version is much better, much more sophisticated and representative of the original's intent.

In other words...we'll have to agree to disagree. I think J.D. does a great job....but you certainly can't please everyone. Perfect example in point.

[Phantom&Phitch]

I like Wrens arrangements bc of how literal they are to the originals.

I like Shaws arrangements just as well.

and I really like Klechs arrangements in 2000 and 2001, especially 2000 durring the ballad and the mellos at the end...

anyone know why he left?

[gellio]

Wow. As a musician and classical music fanatic myself, I could not be more diammetrically opposed to your point of view. I think J.D. does a fantastic job, especially last year.

In my opininon, the 1984 version of Scythian is simply not at all in the style of Prokofiev...it jsut doesn't convey any of the "in your face" aggression of the original. I feel the 2006 version is much better, much more sophisticated and representative of the original's intent.

In other words...we'll have to agree to disagree. I think J.D. does a great job....but you certainly can't please everyone. Perfect example in point.

Wow! We have differing opinions. I have the opposite view about Scythian '84 vs. '06. I felt the '84 version has much more aggression than the '06 version. I still love Phantom though. I'll reserve total judgement for when I see it live, but the ADP's - not so much.

[SkyRyder_FMM]

Wow. As a musician and classical music fanatic myself, I could not be more diammetrically opposed to your point of view. I think J.D. does a fantastic job, especially last year.

In my opininon, the 1984 version of Scythian is simply not at all in the style of Prokofiev...it jsut doesn't convey any of the "in your face" aggression of the original. I feel the 2006 version is much better, much more sophisticated and representative of the original's intent.

In other words...we'll have to agree to disagree. I think J.D. does a great job....but you certainly can't please everyone. Perfect example in point.

84 OTL was not aggressive and in your face? Wow. I never thought I'd hear that. They were ripping everyone's face off with the opening strains. Their opening was about as "in your face" as you could get. I distinctly recall in Atlanta watching everyone in front of me lean back a bit when they let er rip at the beginning of the show.

The 84 and 06 arrangements are very different, but I think I have to agree with the original poster - I like the 84 version better (especially the first tour version, before they cut out a big section). The 06 version is good, it's just "too smooth" to me. Rather than being forceful, staccato, and driving, there are far more slurs, and blending going on. It's a good arrangement - just not as "in your face" as I was hoping it would be.

I too have been a big fan of JD's arranging at Phantom. He is really starting to come into his own. I remember hearing 2002 early in teh year. The writing was thick and meaty. It was absolutely awesome. However, it sounded muddled in most football stadiums. After they watered the book and thined it out a bit, it sounded much better. That original show would have probably sounded incredible indoors in a symphony hall - just not outside. JD has done a great job of improving his arranging over the years, and he has produced some of my favorite shows from Phantom.

And I also agree with Nick - he is a very funny and talented guy. I marched with him in 86 to 88 in the Sky Ryders, and we were both in the middle brass section.

[The Tsar]

84 OTL was not aggressive and in your face? Wow. I never thought I'd hear that. They were ripping everyone's face off with the opening strains. Their opening was about as "in your face" as you could get. I distinctly recall in Atlanta watching everyone in front of me lean back a bit when they let er rip at the beginning of the show.

Mabe live this was the case...and maybe this was the case for 1984....but looking at it in terms of the present, and in terms of someone who marched in the early 1990s, I don't find it all that aggressive. Maybe I've been spoiled by this year's version, and by the original...which is in my opinion closer to the 2006 version than the 1984 version....who knows, maybe it's just th recording I've got. Plus...it's just too little material in the 1984 version...not enough of it was used.

And I also agree with Nick - he is a very funny and talented guy. I marched with him in 86 to 88 in the Sky Ryders, and we were both in the middle brass section.

Ah, you must have also marched with Chad Causey then...he just found me after almost 12-13 years...found his name in one of my diary entries, probably.

[kdaddy]

I honestly was not a fan of his 2002 writing. Listening to the original second movement from Shostakovich's 10th, perhaps it's not a tune that translates well to a different instrumentation regardless of arranger. Actually, I liked BK's 1998 version better than PR 2002.

On a side note, after hearing what SCV's did with Symphony 12, I'd like to hear PR take a swing.

[Jd83]

In my time with the Regiment, we had a few rewrites, additions, and subtractions. The major adjustments I remember from 1982 was dynamic adjustments, a two count pause just before the big crank in "Mourning/Uprising", another baritone player and me playing half and quarter notes (all G (or D concert)) during the big crank at the end of "Mourning/Uprising" (you can hear me on the left side) while the rest of the bari line was playing eighth notes (F# and G), and the addition of a couple of arpeggios in G by two 3rd baritone players at end of the show.

In 1983, we were originally supposed to play Capriccio Italien, but I guess the arrangement wasn't working, so the tune was dumped for Dance Neopolitan. Some adjustments were made in the opener and first drum solo horn reprise and a solo section was added and a baritone duet was changed to a small baritone feature in mid-season in 1812 Overture.