X DM Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Yep, extreme hyperbole will win the discussion.Actually right now the Cavies are the only corps with elite status because they won San Antonio, but they might not be elite after tonight and tomorrow That's right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlemm Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 I still think most fans view them that way. But maybe there is a dividing line between "elite" and "crowd perception". These corps certainly aren't among top 4 right now, but every time they step on the field, the crowds go nuts. The crowds know these corps' histories and show their appreciation. I don't think you could call them elite right now, but hey, what do I know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decompressed Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Cadets, BD, Cavies are elite to me. Second Tier would be Phantom, SCV, Bluecoats (basd on recent history) Basically, any corps that can consistently be in the Top 5 over a long period of time. in the 90s i would have included Madison, but this decade has seen them not consistently in that top five. Peace! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass5 Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 If my children ever decide they want to march corps, I pray they'll want to march Vanguard... does that answer the question? I couldn't agree more. "Class and character" and "Top 5 Elite" though to some are not synonymous. There are some of the "elite" corps now with reputations of lacking in both class and character. I guess the definition of "elite" is the real question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) I guess the definition of "elite" is the real question. and that question was answered in the original post. It's about the perception of the general population. By the way, I'm curious which corps you are refering to when you say that some of the current elite lack class and character Edited July 28, 2006 by dbc03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlemm Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 The real question lies within each person's definition of elite. IMHO, it is the ability to stay in the top tier (top 5 or so) for a couple years. Right now, that would be BD, Cavies, Phantom, Cadets and Blue, based off last year and this year. For me, the elite corps are about a time frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunch2402 Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 I can't help but think that this thread simply cannot be settled on dcp... when asking for an outsider's opinion of what the elite corps are, how many of us on here are truly considered "outsiders"? if i were to define the "elite" corps i would start with crowd response... being a Scout, the perception of my show comes from the crowd, not the judges... sure, a title is fantastic, and i'm sure there's nothing better than being considered the best div 1 corps in the land... but if i had to choose between having a ring from a show that the fans didn't really get into or having a finalist show that the crowd stood the entire time for, i would choose the latter... for an outsider, i would have to think that the "elite" would be defined by surface drum corps history, most notably those six corps that have won dci (bd, cavies, cadets, pr, scv, madison, with star going down in elite lore)... that was the whole point of the tour of champions, for dci to showcase their "elite" corps... and i would say that no matter current standings (scv last year, scouts since 99, etc.) the buzz for any of these six corps upon entering the stadium can't quite be touched... the easiest way to evalute this? go see shows at the very beginning of the year before anyone knows what the show is about/like... when a corps' name precedes its program, there's your "elite"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X DM Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) I agree with Bawker. The elite corps and best corps can be quite different. I have rarely not been entertained by Bluecoats, Phantom, Cadets, Devils, and Cavaliers. Gmen and SCV have been good but not my cup of tea for years (this year's Gmen being the first show I like from them in a long time). Boston is off and on with me as far as entertainment, same with Crossmen, and Madison has not had that Madison formula since 1999.However, I think if you are going to define elite, then one must look at the corps that have the best chance at winning titles. There are ONLY three corps that consistently do this: Cavaliers, Cadets, and BD. In the early 90s we had Star of Indiana. In the 1970s and 1980s SCV and Madison were contenders many times, but since 1990 this has not been the case. SCV has 1 title since 1990, and that was the only year they contended, well you can possibly throw in 1998. And while Madison has some fantastic shows in the 1990s, none of them contended seriously. The Blue Devils have been contending for the last 4 decades, the Cadets for the last 3, and the Cavaliers the last 2. These 3 have been consistent top 3 finishers since then, and continue to be today. No currently active corps can say that, and it's not even close. So these three are the elite. If you want to beat them, then beat 'em. Take 'em on head to head, and prepare for a serious battle. I am pushing for Blue this year. They now have the muscle, so to speak, and the other necessities, and their product just gets better and better. If your definition is that an elite corps is a top 5 corps, then I suggest that the Bluecoats are an elite corps. If your definition is not based on long-term past and all, then yes, the 'Coats are elite. Only if you are considering long-term history can you even make the argument that SCV and Madison are elite corps, or if tradition and fan respect is part of the equation. But if elite mean contending, ability to win, and the highest level of excellence in performance, then there are 3 and only 3. Now, if we are talking " entertainment " as the criteria now ( as you did here above ) then that would likewise change my previous listing above of " elite Corps " status for sure. Despite perhaps some recent editions, the Madison Scouts would go onto my list as an " elite Corps ". It probably will take quite a few entertainment down years to knock Madison out of my " elite Corps " status too, if " entertainment ", not " placement and scoring " is the criteria used. Entertainment " elite " staus is most definately a personal and subjective thing, and there is clearly no right or wrong answer here. Some could legitimately have the Crossmen in the " elite Corps " status when entertainment is the criteria utilized, And of course, some do have the Crossmen historically in their personal category for this. Edited July 28, 2006 by X DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cire Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 i might be against the grain on this one.. but as of right now (with no disrespect to either corps).. scv is still rebuilding.. madison is there, but not a threat. and elite can be described as many things, from person thoughts to actual facts. dictionary.com says A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status so based on definition, i would say as of right NOW.. no to either of them. and yes, they are both great, but if they were "enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status" they would be the best, and would be winning, or at least in the top 3. They are a class act and every time they enter the field, they command respect and admration from the audience. yes, but so does EVERY corps. but respect and admiration isnt what was asked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scerpella Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Cadets, BD, Cavies are elite to me.Second Tier would be Phantom, SCV, Bluecoats (basd on recent history) Basically, any corps that can consistently be in the Top 5 over a long period of time. in the 90s i would have included Madison, but this decade has seen them not consistently in that top five. Peace! I would agree. The only real elite are the ones who win year after year, Cavies, BD and Cadets. I agree on the second tier apart from SCV. They are teetering on that second tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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