Regiment's "crass" sound

[Fincis]

Crass is the 2005 cadets hornline. The trumpets need to stop pinching.

Oh snap, that's a good one. I'm assuming you're talking about the 2 or 3 stick outs that were ONE person.

[Fincis]

No. In 2003 we were the only ones, but now Blue Knights, Blue Stars, Boston Crusaders, Carolina Crown, Magic, and Southwind all play on Kings as well.

Cool, thanks. How do you like them by the way?

[WOOHOO]

Oh snap, that's a good one. I'm assuming you're talking about the 2 or 3 stick outs that were ONE person.

We all have that one guy (I was it seldomly, oops) :) It was evident on the Finals recording, particularly during "New World". Meh, there have been worst things happen in DCI history.

Speaking of crass, listen to "Wicked" during Spirit's 2005 Finals recording. Someone left a baritone surprise. I don't know who that was, but it sure as heck wasn't me!!!

[Fincis]

We all have that one guy (I was it seldomly, oops) :) It was evident on the Finals recording, particularly during "New World". Meh, there have been worst things happen in DCI history.

Speaking of crass, listen to "Wicked" during Spirit's 2005 Finals recording. Someone left a baritone surprise. I don't know who that was, but it sure as heck wasn't me!!!

Yeah, I've done it many a time as well. (Hangs head in shame) I do find that those instances happen way more often on Finals, being how we can let our excitement get to us.

[tubalovin']

I'm no horn guy, but maybe the issue is that Phantom knows it has a low brass reputation, and people (including me) love it...so sometimes the low brass players sometimes try to kick up the volume a little more than they probably should (from a sound quality perspective). ?

i say bring on the volume, yeah, it's painful to watch some of the less experienced corps try to play above their capabilities, but top 12, i say go for the gusto, cause some damage, set off the car alarms and wake up people in neighboring towns. i want big

[jordsterr]

While I do think that Phantom generally sounds great this season, I'm left flat at the end of the show because (IMO) they let it hang out too much. Is it musically appropriate to be loud and exciting at the end of the show? YES! But I feel that they lose effectiveness by crosing the line to overblown and out of tune. That's not an indictment of the whole show...just the very end the two times I've seen them live. Otherwise, this is a very fine brass ensemble.

I do have to wonder about a different certain corps who typically has a great horn line, but this year has immature TQ and not great intonation. I can think of 5 lines I would rather hear.

Jordi Vilanova

[Chris Scott]

4. Some of Phantom's rough performances would be 1985 and 1986, 1992 (at least at finals), 1997, and 1999. In 2003 they had some moments and simply didn't play the way they were capable, but I still love that music. had they played better, they would have won high brass.

Ouch! Yep - '92 was a little bit rough. :)

It was a great summer, but to say that our sound was a little "edgy" would be generous!

There were so many great things to come out of 1992 - most notably, 1993!

Before I had been deflowered in the ways of summer love by my drum corps mistress...I asked a Regiment Alum to describe the Regiment sound to me. He looked at me and said "low brass" in much the same way the gang from the sandlot looked at Smalls when he admitted he didn't know who "The Great Bambino" was. B)

I brought out my recordings, and couldn't REALLY tell from '80, '81, or '82. Just because of the recordings. But man oh man, when I heard '83 - I understood. And WELL! '84 recordings couldn't decipher because of yadda yadda yadda.

The truth is, there are some hallmark moments when Phantom has played that I think define what Regiment "sound" is. The first organ hit in the '90 show - The first chord of Spartacus (pick your year - and I know this contradicts what I said earlier about 1981 or 1982, but it's MY REPLY) - The final dissonance/release in '96 (I think around 9'25" to 9'40" on the disc) - The final chord of Novorossik Chimes (Fire of Eternal Glory) in '93. I think those, and others really demonstrate what the "Phantom Regiment Sound" is.

I think it is also important to remember that, when listening to APD's, CD's and even DVD's (VHS and Beta available on request - j/k), microphone placement can have a drastic impact on the "quality" of sound of a corps. 2 of my favorite shows of ALL TIME (Garfield '87 - a baritone giving just a little extra in the first "hit", and SCV '87 - the final push and chord of The Great Gate of Kiev had a mello or 2nd/3rd sop "over blowing") has some edginess issues, and they were shows that, in my opinion, defined a corps (for me at least, swoon...). I'm sure in the stands, standing right in front of them,you could pick it out, but halfway up, on the 50 - the "target area" could not hear the edginess problems.

Now, understand that I have heard educator's names invoked regarding "tone quality" and "philosophy of sound" on other discussions here in DCP land, but I think that when you are dealing with an idiom where there can be so many variables such as, difference in bugle/horn brand, difference in mouthpiece type, age of instrument, personal philosophy of sound, age of performer, relative humidity, temperature, clarity of percussion writing, etc., the Phantom Regiment sound may not be comparable to say, the Eastman Wind Symphony, Tokyo Kasei (in their heyday), or more locally, the Dallas Wind Symphony. Drum Corps is Drum Corps. Most corps have an amlagam of talent levels from varying and differing schools of pedagogical thought - Especially Regiment.

Didn't mean to go on this long.

Chris

[Jeff Ream]

Like the title says, my purpose here is not to stir the pot, though I know people will use this opportunity to get in some shots...I don't mind, that's what opinions are for...

However, I am curious about this topic, since I posted something similar in another thread, and have not received any answers yet.

I've heard the charge bandied about that Regiment's sound is "crass" an awful lot. What exactly do people mean by that? Certainly, I've heard sounds from the Cavaliers, and The Cadets, and Devils, and SCV, et al., so I am aware that drum corps can, from time to time, sound somewhat crass simply because of the nature of our activity (outdoor performance). And yep...I've certainly also heard crass sounds from Regiment from time to time (baritone tear in the 1994 closer, overeager sopranos in 1997, overall bad sounds in the closer of 2000, etc.) But I would never categorize the hornlines I've mentioned above as "crass" simply because of a few bad moments here and there...not for any corps... I know this differs from certain corps' philosophies, but I simply don't have the same standards for indoor ensembles that I do for outdoor ensembles. I think it's an unfair label to hang on Regiment. Certainly, their brass lines get a lot of attention because they are loud, and tend to be the loudest or among the loudest hornlines in DCI. But loud does not equal the same thing as crass.

I had one guy tell me that the way the Regiment brass staff teaches is obscene! We're talking about a staff that has included, recently, three professional musicians that have played in many symphony orchestras. Nothing I have heard from them could be labeled "obscene," that is simply a bit much...and it makes me wonder what other staffs have to say about the Regiment hornline in the heat of "competition." Of course, once a staff says it, the members begin to say it and believe it, and off we go (and I am sure Regiment is guilty of this too...I know we were when I marched). I've mostly heard the charge coming from fans and alumns of the Cavaliers...now, this is NOT another Cavies vs PR post or thread, so please don't make it one...I am simply pointing out that the contrast in philosophy between both corps may be what causes the label of "crass" to be flung at PR. However, since I have also observed some people who don't state whether or not they are Cavaliers alumni saying the same thing, I am curious enough to want to do a little research.

What I'd really like is for someone to point me to instances of "Crass" in the recent Regiment hornlines. I'm talking more since J.D., Sam, Pat, et al started working with Regiment....more like 2002 to the present). I'm willing to listen with a fresh set of ears to instances of "Crassness" if someone will give me an example. I may not agree with you, but I will at least listen more analytically. I want to know what it is that everyone refers to, because honestly, I may have subconsciously ignored those instances due to my allegiance to the corps...this is why I am wanting to re-evaluate the corps' sound. Please be constructive...simply point out moments in recent years' shows, tell me why you think it is crass, and I will listen to them.

Thanks in advance.

crass? no way. lacking power?

very much so

[SACMellos2010]

On the King question....

I can not speak for the new lines but the old King Mellos were awesome for a G bugle!!!! Last year from playing a new Yamaha to picking up the old King G was like going from a Pinto to a Mercedez. SO much easier to mvoe through the register and center pitch to pitch.

[year1buick]

or more locally, the Dallas Wind Symphony.

Always liked the sound of that principle trombone player. :P (Jimmy Clark) I was pretty lucky to have him as a private instructor in high school... I can still hear him saying, "Gotta keep those corners set" in that familiar Texas drawl. Very cool guy and great instructor. Actually, I think it was his approach to breathing and "sound" that helped me get a spot in the Hymn to Peace soli section in '92. As a converted trombone player, I didn't have great fingers, but my overall tone was pretty good. He had me using a breathing tube and playing long tones till I was blue in the face long before I was doing the same in Regiment. (Paid off, I guess...)