TomPeashey Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 On another public forum which I only monitor and don't post to... some very well known and respected people discussed the "Stooopid penalties" issued for soloists going over the front sidelines... While I do not subscribe to that forum and will not post there... to dismiss those comments being made by many without adding some history and common sense would be inappropriate... so I add my response here. The following comments are regarding the two instances of a soloist for Renegades going over the front PIT line... remember that's already a full 15 feet ahead of the front sidelines... And please remember that my comments are coming from a former corps director who suffered the same fate some 13 or 14 years ago in prelims and went out and bought fencing for finals to keep his soloists at bay... :-) On the subject of stupid penalties... Front sideline boundary has nothing to do with old archaic Legion or VFW rules but rather with common sense and MUCH experience... During the period where we were indeed, trying to remove almost anything that could be concluded to be "stupid" penalties, the front boundary was one of the penalties removed... The ensuing season was one of chaos and nightmares... Soloists jumping fences to get into the stands (only playing to the few fortunate enough to be around the judges rather than the entire audience)... Creating opportunities for injury to either the players or the audience... And causing MUCH consternation among the sponsors who had stadium people all over them about safety issues. You can't exactly mandate that every stadium have access to the stands at the 50 or even a safe place closer to the stands - every venue is completely different... Like anything, the designers will push the envelope given to them... Because "we" are "you" and pretty much agree with your comments about stupid penalties - every effort was made to try and eliminate such stupidity... It failed dismally in this case. The compromise was to increase the size of the pit to a full 15 ft. rather than 10 Ft. from the front sidelines and allow soloists or for that matter the entire corps to use the pit as the designers deem appropriate... (bringing the shows "in your face" if you prefer) HOWEVER, since the attempt at giving the corps performers total latitude in this matter failed... The front line - now increased to a full 5 yards closer to the people was deemed appropriate and like any rule, it means nothing if there is not some consequence to breaking that rule... Drum Majors (while not performing on an instrument (brass, percussion or guard equipment) are of course the exception. Please remember that these few rules are for the entire season. While they may seem unnecessary in the huge confines of a championship stadium, the rules have to be appropriate for the entire season... Allowing a relaxation of these rules at championships could give a corps an unfair advantage for this one performance... That would not be right.. SPONSORS had huge input in this matter back when. Part of DCA's success has been LISTENING to the sponsors and making necessary changes to make their job easier and safer. Now you know the history... I ask everyone to keep in mind that a few general rules are necessary to keep the competition safe and on an equal footing for all. To not have these rules caused chaos, unsafe conditions and unequal opportunities for both the performers and the fans. Tom Peashey Old DCA guy (but no longer affiliated with DCA in any way) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 The compromise was to increase the size of the pit to a full 15 ft. rather than 10 Ft. from the front sidelines and allow soloists or for that matter the entire corps to use the pit as the designers deem appropriate... (bringing the shows "in your face" if you prefer) HOWEVER, since the attempt at giving the corps performers total latitude in this matter failed... The front line - now increased to a full 5 yards closer to the people was deemed appropriate and like any rule, it means nothing if there is not some consequence to breaking that rule... Drum Majors (while not performing on an instrument (brass, percussion or guard equipment) are of course the exception. I absolutely agree with Tom on this. The front-side boundary rule is a good one. Now, the back-side boundary rule...that one is on the "stoopid" side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburstall Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Give them 15 feet, they take 16. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPeashey Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 I'm not sure if you were trying to be funny or not... BUT.... for the record.... there is NO PENALTY for crossing the back sideline or either end zone boundary... only penalty is for crossing the front pit boundary... The only way I can even think of perhaps in this instance would be if someone went off the field in the end zones and then came forward in front of the pit line... they then would be guilty of being in front of the pit line... and would receive a penalty... but no penalty for going off into the endzone itself... The only other rule that comes into play is that you must start the entire corps proper (defined as all members accept pit players and drum majors) on the football field at the beginning of timing of the show... This came about for another completely different set of reasons which would be another thread entirely. usual caviat... not speaking for DCA and not affiliated with DCA in any way... just happen to have been involved in writing the rules back when... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaLisaMoMeesa Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Tom, I can't speak fro 2006 because I wasn't there and haven't seen any of the shows, however, it was a tough pill to swallow in 2003 when two different people from two different corps told me that they themselves crossed over the boundry and they were glad they "didn't get caught". Is there a line judge that specifically watches this boundry or IS it a matter of IF a judge sees you, you get the penalty, if he doesn't, you don't? Just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 (edited) I'm not sure if you were trying to be funny or not... BUT.... for the record....there is NO PENALTY for crossing the back sideline or either end zone boundary... only penalty is for crossing the front pit boundary... Interesting, as the 2004 Buccaneers were penalized for "rear boundary" violations at least once, and I want to say twice. Edited September 6, 2006 by Kamarag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camel lips Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 IThe only other rule that comes into play is that you must start the entire corps proper (defined as all members accept pit players and drum majors) on the football field at the beginning of timing of the show... This was a soccar field,not a football field so wouldnt that rule be thrown out b**bs b**bs b**bs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camel lips Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Is there a line judge that specifically watches this boundry or IS it a matter of IF a judge sees you, you get the penalty, if he doesn't, you don't? Just wondering. I asked that same question to some people that were in the know and never really got a defined answer. I feel certain DCA does not have a judge that his only responciblity is to watch that line,,,so yes I feel like your assesment is correct,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davhen Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 I asked that same question to some people that were in the know and never really got a defined answer.I feel certain DCA does not have a judge that his only responciblity is to watch that line,,,so yes I feel like your assesment is correct,,, It is probably like the old DCI system. there's probably a "timing and penalties" judge, whose job it is to time the entrance, exit and watch for any potential penalties. Even so, there is always a chance that he could miss a boundary violation, if he was checking something else out. That used to happen a lot when dropped equipment was considered a penalty in DCI. Thats right, every flag, weapon, drumstick, hat or mouthpiece that hit the ground during the show cost you .1 each. I am pretty sure it is not the responsibiltiy of the caption judges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdewine Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 So, like what if we had full-contact Drum Corps.....and say a guy from the Kilties threw a flying tackle at one of the girls in the Bucs pit...and she got knocked out of bounds. Can she resume her spot as soon as she gets up? Does she have to wait until the end of the particular song they are playing? Or is she out for the remainder of the show? And....can Tommy Argy throw a flag for "roughing the marimba player"? These are all important questions, when it comes to boundary penalties. b**bs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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