Malibu Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 I dont know what part of Va that is. I moved to philly from Va. it takes 3 hours to get to Washington DC... Va is south of Dc.And also, did they (the mystery Va group) put up when it was time? Did they offer everything that the SA group was able to offer? From what I understood, it was a guy in Northern VA. Also I don't think he had the financial resources that the guy in Texas has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 What an amazing emotion filled thread!!!!!!!I for one don't have a good feeling about this and here are some reasons why. 1. Since the founding of DCI in 1972, the state of Texas has not given rise to nor supported a nationally touring Division 1 drum corps. Why would the move of the Crossmen suddenly change whatever forces exist there that have not allowed a corps to thrive in that state until now? Past behavior is the best judge of future performance. 2. The Crossmen have existed since 1975. How many alumni does that work out to? A. 31 years x 128 members per year = 3968 potential alums. Assume the corps never had greater than 30% turnover in any year and that number drops considerably. B. 31 years by 90 members per year = 2790 potential alums. C. Even in the most loyal and active alumni organizations of any kind you are very lucky to get 50% participation = 1395 potential active Crossmen alumni. D. Assuming that number is a good one and they all donate $100 a year to the corps, the best you are going to come up with is $140,000. No way that pays for the corps operating expenses for even 6 months. My point here is that try as they might the Crossmen alumni do not have the purchasing power to keep the corps afloat. If they did, the alliance with YEA would not have happened in the first place. 3. The move further complicates the logistics by separating the corps from it's built in volunteer base. Hmmmm... Let's have a fundraiser outside of Philly for a corps in Texas. How long does anyone realistically think that will fly? (Before anyone starts talking about volunteers in Texas reread my first point.) 4. Right now the folks in Texas are all pumped. What happens when the reality of managing an operation such as this takes hold from a logistic and financial standpoint? When you read between the lines of the release it is clear that YEA's intent is to step away 2 years from now. What happens if the corps is not financially solvent at that point? Nothing has been publicized about a fall back plan should this move not work. Is there one? Or do the Crossmen just fold? Assorted other questions... Did DCI have any hand in this decision? Will they advise as they have done with other Div. I corps experiencing difficulty? Did YEA even ask DCI for help? Who "owns" the Crossmen? YEA? The Crossmen Alumni Association? RRHS? If the Texas move fails, will another organization be able to bring the Crossmen back? Many unanswered questions here and I feel we are being asked to accept on faith that the best is being done to save the corps. YEA may feel that way but has anyone looked at the turnover in that organization in the last 10 years? Sure it's a non-profit and these types of organizations are ripe for staff changes but is it possible that they don't have their ducks all in a row from a managment standpoint? Excellent post. I am an alum and former staffer of the corps. I will say that YEA bailed out the corps when in serious jeopardy when that absorption happened; although the corps has never challenged for the DCI title (how many have) they had good years, and were respectable even in the last 2 years, the only that they did not make DCI finals under YEA. Many complain that the Crossmen were never treated as the Cadets.....the Crossmen in fact were treated well....yes, they didn't operate on even budgets, but the Crossmen didn't take in nearly as many donations and merchandise sales, and were given more than their share. I also will state that I do think YEA is making the move that THEY feel is best for the corps. I can't help but wonder though if it was the only thing possible and that it wasn't done in haste......was there no way to keep the corps in the east??? All of that said....to me, the Crossmen is an EASTERN drum corps. This corps, for 34 years, provided a place for average kids from average households to drive 0-6 hours (or pile in a car/van with friends) and march in a division I corps, and they were a mainstay in Pennsylvania. These kids may not quite be good enough to make the Cadets, and flying to audition for ANY corps is not an option fiscally. The description above describes around 80% of the membership of the Crossmen. This has just become extinct effective Thursday. Some will make a very long drive to try to become a Bluecoat now. Maybe a few will try out for Cadets. Many will now stay home. Perhaps a few will try to come up with the large amount of money to return as a "fly-in" member (just one rt flight from Philly exceeds $300....) There have been no efforts by the new administration to accomodate the current members, holding no northeast auditions or rehearsals, or even any communication. Only "auditions are in November in Texas".....not exactly a "welcome back"....... Also, the alumni have received no communication at all from the new corps administration. When the Sky Ryders moved to Texas....they made finals the first year, missed the next 2, and then were toast. They were right outside Dallas and within easy striking range of UNT. This new team is from the world of band, not Drum Corps....preparing for BOA contests and preparing to tour and compete with the Blue Devils and Phantom is a whole different game. If things don't work out, will it just be another folding?? One thing for certain, is that as of now, there is one less division I corps in the east....the Crossmen are now a "new drum corps" in Texas, and that has both saddened and alienated many former members, staff, and alumni in the last few days. The Crossmen, as an eastern drum corps, are over. GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumCorpsMom Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 (edited) I've been silent until now. You ask how many alumni will still support the corps and then compare it to the Colts. The difference IS we marched with the corps.....did those fans PLAY with the Colts??? Nope! So that IS why their fan base got cut off. For us the Crossmen Alumni, many of us didn't live in PA. In fact, many traveled as far away as Calif., Canada and San Antonio, Texas. So what is to stop us now from supporting the corps that became a family to us? I agree. Bones is an institution that is entrenched with tradition and history. I know a lot of the kids come via train and plane to participate - maybe 50%. Whether their plane lands in Philly or SA, they will still be the Crossmen, as long as the history stays will the corps. Crossmen struggled with YEA only because their identity is so strong. Without YEA, they probably would have folded years ago financially, but I imagine the strength of their identify must have left YEA at odds. If the Crossmen are to remain the Crossmen, it is critical that the Crossmen Alumni be there for the corps. This corps is a true family and needs to stick together to survive. Edited September 24, 2006 by DrumCorpsMom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 I agree. Bones is an institution that is entrenched with tradition and history. I know a lot of the kids come via train and plane to participate - maybe 50%. Whether their plane lands in Philly or SA, they will still be the Crossmen, as long as the history stays will the corps. Crossmen struggled with YEA only because their identity is so strong. Without YEA, they probably would have folded years ago financially, but I imagine the strength of their identify must have left YEA at odds. If the Crossmen are to remain the Crossmen, it is critical that the Crossmen Alumni be there for the corps. This corps is a true family and needs to stick together to survive. I checked with a parent of a member/friend....80% of this year's members drove to campsand were within 6 hours....around 20% flew.....that particular member will now tryout for Bluecoats...members with modest means will not be able to afford $2500 worth of plane fare in addition to dues (ie now over $4000 to march counting the plane fare....ouch...).........yes, there will be some who can and do..........I also hate to say this, but if the new owners cared about the current membership, they would have at least made an attempt to hold eastern auditions and a few eastern camps to ease the pain. This hasn't been done. ironically, this will does help the Texas kid who can't afford to fly..... None of us (the alumni) are upset about the eventual departure from YEA....in fact, we owe YEA gratitude for saving the corps when it was in deep, and I for one feel the corps was treated well...yes, not evenly with Cadets, but that was never the deal, and the Cadets take in MUCH more money...the Crossmen were treated more than fair. Running one div I corps is a monumental task...2 is ridiculous.....I do have a hard time believing that this was the only option, though, and the corps identity as an eastern drum corps has now been eliminated. GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 For all of you complaining about there not being enough details, and the new director not speaking up. Give them time. They aren't going say anything until things are finalized. For all you know they could be working hard to figure out a way to accomodate the east coast members, but they wouldn't say anything until it was finalized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 I get it that distance is a negative for many members who can't afford to fly to Texas for rehearsals. I noticed the many flags with Pennsylvania, Maryland and other nearby hometowns on the field last summer. And I wondered then whether the apparent concentration of local members was indicative of something. If competition is the aim, then the aim has to be to attract the best-available talent to form the best-possible corps. The new Crossmen recruiting in Texas will have a new opportunity to provide local talent with a local option. That's no solace for the kid left behind in Westchester or Hagerstown. But it just might be an opportunity to tap a richer vein. It also might have the interesting consequence of shifting the dynamic at several other corps. To the extent Crossmen succeed in keeping quality Texans home, Madison, Phantom and others just might keep more locals too. HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louielouie Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Here is the REAL question. WHO actually bought the CROSSMEN from YEA ? Who is paying the BILLS ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geluf Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 1. Since the founding of DCI in 1972, the state of Texas has not given rise to nor supported a nationally touring Division 1 drum corps. Why would the move of the Crossmen suddenly change whatever forces exist there that have not allowed a corps to thrive in that state until now?Past behavior is the best judge of future performance. You have *no idea* how that will affect the Crossmen. You can only speculate. 4. Right now the folks in Texas are all pumped. What happens when the reality of managing an operation such as this takes hold from a logistic and financial standpoint? When you read between the lines of the release it is clear that YEA's intent is to step away 2 years from now.What happens if the corps is not financially solvent at that point? Nothing has been publicized about a fall back plan should this move not work. Is there one? Or do the Crossmen just fold? Again, you have NO IDEA about the people who will be running the Crossmen. You are blindly speculating and automatically assuming the worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsreps Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 SPECIAL MESSAGE TO ALUMNI - CROSSMEN MOVE TO TEXAS The major mission of the Crossmen Alumni Association is the development of charitable contributions exclusively for the Crossmen Drum & Bugle Corps. The secondary mission is the social interaction of alumni, administration, staff and volunteers to support and preserve the heritage of the Drum Corps. Since 1998 we have done just that, and based off information that the CAA has been able to obtain though numerous conversations over the past three days, we have every reason to continue to do so as the Crossmen continue to move forward. There are many questions we cannot answer. All I can speak of is that after the shock of the move has sunk in, the Crossmen will continue to be the family we know it to be. Will things be different? Most likely, but the differences affects the marching members mostly, and frankly they are used to change, it's part of being a Crossmen, it’s part of the activity. The folks struggling with this the most after the members, are those of us who should know better. No, the “Bones” won’t rehearse in the Northeast any longer during the winter. No, you can’t go to Pennsgrove on a Sunday a catch a rehearsal. Yes, the corps operation is moving to San Antonio. Yes, the corps will call two states home. Yes, the corps will return to the Northeast during the competitive season. Yes, the corps will return to compete in Allentown. Yes, we will still do cookie salad and Yes, “Bones” will never be too far away. It’s that simple, if you were on board with the Crossmen before you should still be on board now, more so than ever. If you were a fence sitter for the past 11 years now it’s time to get off the fence. If you've been an armchair quarterback, now is the time to get in the game. There is no reason for anyone to pull his or her support from the Crossmen at this time. There are vets looking to carry on the traditions and heritage of the corps. We owe it to them to assist in their dreams. The CAA is challenging its membership and all alumni to now come forward to offer the 2006 vets the opportunity to be on the field as a 2007 Crossmen member. If you are willing to sponsor a 2006 vet in any manner, please contact Allie Reedy through crossmenalumni@aol.com, she will put you in touch with a 2006 vet asking for assistance. One way of donating is to donate airline miles such as what Southwest Airlines offers for unused tickets. Delta also offers a similar program with their SkyMiles. Of course there is always some monetary donation, that will be welcomed. The CAA is also challenging all of its scholarship awardees over the past eight years to do the right thing and look to give back. The CAA was there for you at a time you least expected it - it’s only right that you now look to step up to ensure that the same opportunity is there for someone else. In closing, we would like to thank Scott Litzenberg for his leadership of the 2006 corps. Scott’s acceptance of the alumni and its role within will always be remembered. Scott has an understanding of the importance of the traditions and heritage that is part of the fabric of the corps. Everyone who had the honor to be guided by Scott owes him a great deal of gratitude. We would also like to wish Mark Chambers and his admin team the best of luck, as preparations for the 2007 season get under way. Stay tuned for more information as it arises, and we appreciate your patience during this time... In the spirit of the Crossmen, Rick Reedy, CAA President crossmenalumni@aol.com http://www.crossmenalumni.net The Crossmen Alumni Association P.O. Box 507 Exton, PA 19341 official press release: http://www.yea.org/site/News2?JServSession...ws_iv_ctrl=1003 I'm recopying this post because in my opinion this is the most important post in this thread and no one has commented on it. I've been waiting to hear an official word from the alumni association. If Rick Reedy says the drum corps operation out of Texas IS THE Crossmen, then a lot of my concerns go away. I still have questions and I'm dying to hear a statement from the new management but to me the thing that makes the Crossmen special and unique is the involvement of the alumni. (That isn't to say other corps don't have involved alumni) From History Night to the Age Out Ceremony and everything in between, the alumni let the members know what it means to be a Crossmen and to be part of that family. If the CAA is still involved, I'm sure things will work out. Thanks for the post, Rick. See you in San Antonio at a camp sometime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoFan Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 How eerily, prophetically poignant those flags in this year's ballad have turned out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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