Any reviews from South Milwaukee?

[PioneerWebmaster]

basscreature... The audio doesn't line up all the way through on the YouTube version for some reason. Something happened when they encoded it that makes it seem like there's a tear in the show. The original file on my computer is fine. I might try uploading it again. If that doesn't work, I'll just make the original file available on the Pioneer website.

[Drillwatcher]

you couldn't be more wrong. judges don't "bag" on any corps. what a blatant misrepresntation of the judging community. Have you ever listened to the tapes from Pioneer?

Here's the continual issue with Pioneer and their performance. A small weak hornline cannot balance a full Div 1, 9-4-5 drumline. There have always been balance and endurance issues with the brass. That is to be expected with a young, small hornline.

Next, they march like a young corps. The old saying goes, you can't teach a 15 year old rookie to march like a 19 year old vet. Only experience can do that.

The g bugles are not the issue as far as on the field performance, it's most likely becoming more and more of a recruiting obstacle. At least that's my opinion.

Finally, they've struggled to field a 30+ person guard which is really becoming more and more neccessary.

It's very hard to tell where their hornline is from viewing and listening to the concert. Also, it's hard to tell how this will sound when they are moving on the field. But, I could clearly hear, once again, the drums outplaying the brass...technique wise, ability, balance. The brass are going to have to take huge leaps to move to the level where the drums already are.

Ok here is my OPINION. Feel free to flame away if it makes you feel better. From the video it appears that the corps number wse could be close to division III. Why not do the II/III route where they have been successful? Mr. Braces's analysis is very accurate. The drums are good and way oversized for the horn line or guard. It looks from the video like a high percentage of the drum line we can see are college age while the horns and guard look much younger. The music is not written at a division I level by listening and it sounds like they only did about 5 minutes after you take out the Gary Owens selection. With a young group I would think you would want all the music at least roughed in by now. Pioneer was a great division II/III corps. I think Roman's heart and abilities are there. Why not move back and be successful?

[MikeN]

D2/3 aren't so much competitive classifications anymore as much as they are organizational / financial.

Mike

[Tom Brace]

Ok here is my OPINION. Feel free to flame away if it makes you feel better. From the video it appears that the corps number wse could be close to division III. Why not do the II/III route where they have been successful? Mr. Braces's analysis is very accurate. The drums are good and way oversized for the horn line or guard. It looks from the video like a high percentage of the drum line we can see are college age while the horns and guard look much younger. The music is not written at a division I level by listening and it sounds like they only did about 5 minutes after you take out the Gary Owens selection. With a young group I would think you would want all the music at least roughed in by now. Pioneer was a great division II/III corps. I think Roman's heart and abilities are there. Why not move back and be successful?

There is no incentive for Pioneer to go to Div. II/III. If I were in their shoes, I'd NEVER volunteer to take a step back competitively or financially. It's not in their best interest.

They are trying to recruit more members...I know this for a fact. It's not tha tthis corps doesn't work hard. They do and I know it for a fact. It's obvious the percussion program is firing on all cylinders. So, the focus most likely is how the guard and hornline programs dig in even harder to get to that level. How does this corps make it a more attractive place for guard people (more than 30) and for brass players (more than 65)? Financially, their dues are a bargain. Milwaukee is a great city. Pioneer cannot continue just being the training corps for the rest of Div. I. Long term this will not prove to be successful.

They need to better establish an identity that attracts AND KEEPS young people. There are young people who WANT to march Regiment, Scouts, Cavies and age out there. There needs to be MORE young people who want to march and age out of Pioneer.

And they...as well as a lot of other corps...need more financial support. It takes more resources to get better. Pioneer has continually proven they know how to manage the limited resources they have. I do not believe if they had more resources their prudent management would change.

[PioneerWebmaster]

Ok here is my OPINION. Feel free to flame away if it makes you feel better. From the video it appears that the corps number wse could be close to division III. Why not do the II/III route where they have been successful? Mr. Braces's analysis is very accurate. The drums are good and way oversized for the horn line or guard. It looks from the video like a high percentage of the drum line we can see are college age while the horns and guard look much younger. The music is not written at a division I level by listening and it sounds like they only did about 5 minutes after you take out the Gary Owens selection. With a young group I would think you would want all the music at least roughed in by now. Pioneer was a great division II/III corps. I think Roman's heart and abilities are there. Why not move back and be successful?

I've asked this question myself several times. I have great memories from 1993-96 and the championships and near championships from those years. Thinking back to those times, it's easy to think that going back to Division II/III is a good idea. However, there are a lot of factors that play into this decision. I know for a fact that the financial aspect of things plays a big role in the decision to continue to compete at the Division I level. Touring at the Division I level pays a ton better than touring at the Division II/III level. Not to mention, participating at the Division I level offers members an experience that cannot be matched by competing at the Division II/III level. The Division II/III tour is a skeleton of what it was back in the day when I had such great memories of it. Going back to Division II/III would significantly cut back on the number of shows that Pioneer got to participate in, as well as limit the diversity of the locations the corps got to visit. This isn't meant as an insult against the corps in Division II/III today. It's just the facts that exist today with the demise of DCM and many of the great Division II/III events.

Also, to kind of counter the aspect that it's impossible to compete at the Division I level with a small horn line, I think our 1999 and 2000 seasons prove that wrong. Granted, those years weren't all that impressive on the final scoreboard, but we were semi-finalists AND the corps sounded pretty balanced with the drum line those years even though we had small horn lines. It's a training process that works itself out by the end of the season, and age/experience have little to do with it. If anything, it's the experience of the staff that plays the biggest role in show design and bringing out the best in each member.

And lastly, having been with Pioneer in one way or another for the past 14 years, it's my honest opinion that the judges don't hold the fact that we're Pioneer against us. Did I always agree with the scores that we got? No, definitely not. But, taking a line from Tony Stewart from this past weekend on the NASCAR circuit, the minute that I believe that DCI is scripting how corps are going to finish, I'll walk away from the activity. DCI has been around too long to risk its integrity by intentionally scoring Pioneer or any other corps way below what they should be scoring. It's easy to play Monday morning quarterback and talk about how great or how bad a show was. But in the end, you weren't on the field hearing/seeing the same thing that the judges were. Whatever score the judges give us or any other corps, there's usually a legitimate reason behind it. Simple as that.

[IllianaLancerContra]

Ok here is my OPINION. Feel free to flame away if it makes you feel better. From the video it appears that the corps number wse could be close to division III. Why not do the II/III route where they have been successful? Mr. Braces's analysis is very accurate. The drums are good and way oversized for the horn line or guard. It looks from the video like a high percentage of the drum line we can see are college age while the horns and guard look much younger. The music is not written at a division I level by listening and it sounds like they only did about 5 minutes after you take out the Gary Owens selection. With a young group I would think you would want all the music at least roughed in by now. Pioneer was a great division II/III corps. I think Roman's heart and abilities are there. Why not move back and be successful?

If it would be for the good of the corps (argueing that more horns are desired), why not take about 12 of the drummers they can obviously recruit and teach them to play (easy to play G) bugles. If I could learn to play a bugle, anyone can. Besides, it is for the good of the corps.

[NR_Ohiobando]

Sounds great!

Hopefully I'll find a ride out to Wisconsin next year so I can try out.

...now if they could only switch their uniform back to one of these, I'd love em even more...

Edited May 3, 2007 by NR_Ohiobando

[uncle z]

It's obvious the percussion program is firing on all cylinders. So, the focus most likely is how the guard and hornline programs dig in even harder to get to that level. How does this corps make it a more attractive place for guard people (more than 30) and for brass players (more than 65)?

They need to merge with another corps with a lot of horns and become "The Thing Revisited!!!"

[Galen]

They are trying to recruit more members...I know this for a fact. It's not tha tthis corps doesn't work hard. They do and I know it for a fact. It's obvious the percussion program is firing on all cylinders. So, the focus most likely is how the guard and hornline programs dig in even harder to get to that level. How does this corps make it a more attractive place for guard people (more than 30) and for brass players (more than 65)? Financially, their dues are a bargain. Milwaukee is a great city. Pioneer cannot continue just being the training corps for the rest of Div. I. Long term this will not prove to be successful.

They need to better establish an identity that attracts AND KEEPS young people. There are young people who WANT to march Regiment, Scouts, Cavies and age out there. There needs to be MORE young people who want to march and age out of Pioneer.

And they...as well as a lot of other corps...need more financial support. It takes more resources to get better. Pioneer has continually proven they know how to manage the limited resources they have. I do not believe if they had more resources their prudent management would change.

A lot's been talked about how the corps struggles to keep and retain members for more than one season, but here's a question I have- what's their STAFF retention been like the last few years? Have they had a stable set of caption heads, or have they had a "revolving door" going on like there was with Crossmen (6 executive directors in 7 years for them, I believe)? It's pretty difficult to establish a solid technique program if there's a new staff every year.

[Galen]

Sounds great!

Hopefully I'll find a ride out to Wisconsin next year so I can try out.

...now if they could only switch their uniform back to one of these, I'd love em even more...

They'd be better off with the bottom ones (which as far as I know are still "available"- they're on the property somewhere); having marched in the top one, I can say that we really didn't "look" like a drum corps in those.