Kyle B Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Danny Elfman did not do Spiderman 3. In the credits, it only lists him as Original Music by Danny Elfman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tsar Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Uhhh....Marty? Wow....you're really digging a hole for yourself here. You MIGHT wanna start being a little more diplomatic and understanding of the viewpoints of others...particularly someone who's #### close to a doctorate in music (am I right there, Nikk?) As of Wednesday, officially. That is when I will defend. However, I should hastily point out that my doctoral degree is not in film music, and Marty is certainly entitled to his opinions even if it were. I don't have a problem with his opinions...only with the manner in which he seemed to be taking things out of context. Then again, it's all water under the bridge. Wish me luck on Wednesday. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Roughy Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 All these posts and not one person has answered the original question? It's quite simple, actually: Long ago, in an attempt to boost his fledgling career, John Williams made a deal with the devil. As has been established on DCP over the past 3 years, George Hopkins is the devil. There you go. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerpCorpsNut Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 All these posts and not one person has answered the original question? It's quite simple, actually:Long ago, in an attempt to boost his fledgling career, John Williams made a deal with the devil. As has been established on DCP over the past 3 years, George Hopkins is the devil. There you go. :P OF COURSE, how did no one see this before?? But in all seriousness, I guess no one knows the answer to the original question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKCanosUSMCContra Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 (edited) As of Wednesday, officially. That is when I will defend.However, I should hastily point out that my doctoral degree is not in film music, and Marty is certainly entitled to his opinions even if it were. I don't have a problem with his opinions...only with the manner in which he seemed to be taking things out of context. Then again, it's all water under the bridge. Wish me luck on Wednesday. :) I was not intentionally attempting to take your statements out of context. My post before last on this thread was an attempt at me trying to explain my point of view on the matter at hand. My point is that IMO stealing music is stealing music whether it's verbatim or something that suggests it was influenced by a source by using things that sound like some one. As a matter of legality, I don't know the actual qualifications for some one plagiarizing music. Sorry for causing grief. Edited June 11, 2007 by VKCanosUSMCContra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stylites Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 My opinion only: John Williams is a hack, although a memorable hack. However, the permissions thing is bogus, in my opinion. He seems really stuck on himself now that he has gotten older. Makes me sad, as I have enjoyed his work so much in the past. My opinion is that he should open himself to more arrangers. But on the other hand.....it is his music and he can do with it what he likes. Danny Elfman's stuff is good, but now it all sounds the same. Loved Edward Scissorhands, though, in particular. Has done extremely well with minor polkas. :P Howard Shore: I have yet to enjoy a score. Lord of the Rings especially was extremely boring and repetitive. Hans Zimmer: I have yet to enjoy a score. Pirates of the Carribean especially was extremely boring and repetitive. Alan Silvestri--inventive and varied. However, he tends to be the repetitive in same-genre films. Elmer Bernstein, Leonard Rosenman and Bernard Hermann--probably the best there ever was. Aaron Copland, Leonard Bernstein, Sergei Prokofiev--enough said Jerry Goldsmith: I have come to appreciate more of his work as I have gotten older James Horner: steals often from himself Michael Giacchinno: an up and coming star. John Barry: the sweeping themes in "Dances With Wolves" still carry with me today John Debney: Incledibly varied. "Sensemaya" from Sin City is priceless as a modern work, IMHO. Phillip Glass: either you like him or you hate him. I happen to like him, although I can understand why some people don't enjoy his work. As far as stealing music, is there really ANYTHING that is actually original out there??? Everyone is influenced by someone and absorbs their music into their own.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tsar Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 I was not intentionally attempting to take your statements out of context. My post before last on this thread was an attempt at me trying to explain my point of view on the matter at hand. My point is that IMO stealing music is stealing music whether it's verbatim or something that suggests it was influenced by a source by using things that sound like some one. As a matter of legality, I don't know the actual qualifications for some one plagiarizing music. Sorry for causing grief. The real reason why movie soundtrack composers have to deal with accusations of theft (and why they borrow in the first place) is twofold. Firstly, the very first Hollywood composers were contemporaries of some of the great names in the music world. Guys like Franz Waxman and Miklos Rosza have a distinctive sound (sound like Mahler) because they were from the same "school" (so to speak). A lot of people I know say (disdainfully) that "movie music sounds like Mahler." In actuality...Mahler sounds like movie music because they were born out of the same romantic style. Secondly...composers are usually given a "temp score" by the director. This score basically gives the film composer an idea of what the director wants in that section. I would not be surprised at all if Lucas gave Williams a temp score that included "Mars," as well as Purcell, Elgar, De Falla, Ravel, etc. The soundtrack to the film 2001 was supposed to be scored by Alex North. I say supposed because Kubrick decided to tank his soundtrack and used the temp score instead (which is why you will hear music by Strauss (Richard and Johann), Ligetti, Khachaturian, etc in the soundtrack. Another good example is the ending to Ridley Scott's "Alien." Most of the music was done by Jerry Goldsmith, but the ending credits is the Hanson Symphony No. 2. I get what you're saying when you write "IMO stealing music is stealing music whether it's verbatim or something that suggests it." I don't agree with you, but it's your opinion, and I won't argue it (though Stravinsky would probably challenge you to a fight, heh). If you hold this ideal close to your heart, then let me give you a bit of advice: Don't go digging too deep for the sources of inspiration for your favourite composers. You will find that many composers, perhaps even the majority, have borrowed source material. Or, to put it in your terms, they've committed musical theft. Heck, even Mozart has been accused of plagiarizing. I don't have a problem with the music of the masters influencing the music of film composers. I have a huge problem with blatant note-for-note ripoffs without giving credit, as Zimmer, Horner, and Tyler Bates do from time to time. Heck, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyler_Bates This guy actually STOLE someone else's soundtrack in an already existing form! That is NOT the same (to me) as Darth Vader's march. Incidentally, Ligetti sued Kubrick for using his music in 2001 and won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stylites Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 I don't have a problem with the music of the masters influencing the music of film composers. I have a huge problem with blatant note-for-note ripoffs without giving credit, as Zimmer, Horner, and Tyler Bates do from time to time. Amen!!! Although Wagner would sue all of them if he were still alive today........he should have patented the leitmotif. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tsar Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Amen!!!Although Wagner would sue all of them if he were still alive today........he should have patented the leitmotif. :P Yes, but then Berlioz could have sued him. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stylites Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 (edited) Yes, but then Berlioz could have sued him. :P It all depends on who filed the patent first. B) In fact..... "Leitmotif" is the property of Clint Matsen. Patent pending...... Edited June 11, 2007 by stylites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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