MikeD Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Those fall under excuses (and yeah, they are only speculations). Wouldn't it be just easier to have a completed show with less sets and then add to it as the season progressed than only 75% done? As a consumer I'd be hard pressed to want to buy any product (again...or even first time) if the product wasn't completed by the due date (aka first show).Would anyone here listen to Beethoven's Fifth if it was was only Beethoven's Four and Halfth?? Are you suggesting that corps teach pages 90, 93, 95, etc... of the shows just to make sure they get to the last page, and then try and fill in the missing pages later on? What a nightmare that would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn craig Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 This is a tough issue. Certainly people who may only see an early show deserve a "complete" product. 2005 was the year several corps had major issues in this are with only half the drill and guard work for the first few shows. Even though there were sections where Bluecoats and Cavaliers didn't move much and the guards had some areas where there wasn't any work, both shows were complete enough that I felt I was watching a "complete" show. The guards were doing work through most of each show. You got a very good sense of their role and purpose in each show and I felt like I "got" each show. Yes I know there is more to add, but there was enough to make it work. Same with drill. From a judging stand point they had more then enough content for the judges to get what's going on and a first good read of each show. I totally understand about being ready for opening day. Buy what constitutes an unfinished show is subjective. Trying to put time limits and quantifiers on it is very difficlut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburstall Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Are you suggesting that corps teach pages 90, 93, 95, etc... of the shows just to make sure they get to the last page, and then try and fill in the missing pages later on? What a nightmare that would be. No, what I'm saying is that the corps design a show with LESS sets and teach those so it will completed by the time they hit the field. As the season progress THEN add in the moves they want and all the bells and whistles. It's not to complicated to see that after a few years a this happening that maybe, just maybe, a different approach is needed so the product is ready for competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdisney Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 I totally understand about being ready for opening day. Buy what constitutes an unfinished show is subjective. Trying to put time limits and quantifiers on it is very difficlut. Well, in the spirit of the original point of this thread, the quantifier that currently exists is on overall show length. And the problem some see with that is that the T&P judge, who would normally assign a penalty for too short a show, is not giving penalties in the early season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn craig Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Well, in the spirit of the original point of this thread, the quantifier that currently exists is on overall show length. And the problem some see with that is that the T&P judge, who would normally assign a penalty for too short a show, is not giving penalties in the early season. With both Cavies and Coats, they didn't stop 3/4 of the way through the show and standstill for several minutes. There were sections not comlete here and there. In several places where this happend it may have been because the show is not finished or it could be they might actually stand still for that moment come August. So should the T & P judge time every time the horn line stands still and add it all up at the end? I certainly am not a fan of unfinished shows. I would NOT want a season to start off like 05 with major gaps and corps actually standing completely still for 5 minutes. From what I saw Saturday night, nothing that extreme happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecoats88 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 as far as timing and penalties being assessed I think if a show is under or over time the corps should receive a penalty regardless of whether it is the first show or DCI finals. The rule for length of show states that the show must be at least 10 minutes long and no more than 11.5 minutes. I see that as something pretty easy to judge and if it is a rule and someone breaks that rule, well then the rule should be enforced with a penalty. Also I believe there is a rule for going over the front line of the pit during a performance. I know corps can go into the pit, but I'm talking about someone going over the front line. I know during the rythmic thing at the beginning of the glassmens performance the second player set up and began playing and the persons foot was over the front line. Now I don't remember if the person corrected this before the actual start of the judged performance time, but if not then I would expect to see a penalty for this infraction. I say if you have rules and penalties defined then they should be enforced at all shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvs me sum mello! Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 You sir, Nick have hit a home run, that is exactly what I am trying to relay. It was never about the Cavies. Its about the corps that finish a product and get blasted for doing so. { It was dirty, etc, etc.} If that's a corps' prerogative, then that's their problem. Me, I'd rather see a 9 minute show that's a bit cleaner then an 11 minute show that feels like they just had the first full run that afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_S Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 *shrug* If a corps without a complete show can't win, who does that leave? No one is really complete right now. I heard Bluecoats mentioned, but their guard was standing still during the end of that show. The judges can only judge what's there, not what they can't see. I'm all for a timing penalty, enforced throughout the season, but it doesn't bother me that an incomplete show could still win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvs me sum mello! Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 How can you possibly say that a corps that ISN'T ready can possibly be the winner of ANY show? This is a joke. DCI has rules, ENFORCE them. I do not care that it was a Cavies show that won, NO corps without a FULL show should even be considered to "win". <**> Totally absurd..... Why would you even consider ranting on this? I applaud every corps for busting their ###es to entertain us with however long a show they want to field come opening day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 With both Cavies and Coats, they didn't stop 3/4 of the way through the show and standstill for several minutes. There were sections not comlete here and there. The bluecoats played most of their show it seems, as it was 11 minutes long. I have no beef with them, as incomplete guard work and a few missing parts dont bother me. And the reason cavies didnt stop 3/4 of the way through their show and standstill for several minutes, is because they didnt even present the last 1/4 of their show. I would have prefered they stand and play. Thats like going to a show that gets rained out, and being happy that the corps just go home. At least give us a standstill if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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