2020

[ouooga]

42 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 There were a number of reasons for DCI not to consider utilizing Jackson, Mississippi for their Championships week in 1993. Weather certainly was one of them. To no ones surprise, August in Mississippi can be as hot as a pistol, not to mention the choking humidity possible for both fans, staffers, and marchers alike. That said, there were no reported Drum Corps deaths, nor permanent physical impairments to my knowledge attributed to heat and humidity with the weather at Championships or outdoor practice facilities in Mississippi. I have been to Jackson, Mississippi, as well as many venues in both Texas and throughout the South over the years. I have been to both Phoenix and Las Vegas too. I see no material difference in the necessary health precautions related to weather that need to be taken in either Las Vegas, Nevada or Phoenix, Arizona compared to most towns and cities in ( for example ) South Carolina, Texas, Alabama, Oklahoma, Kansas, etc in late July and throughout the month of August. Once a temperature exceeds 92-94 degrees, the precautions one needs to take are exactly the same, no matter the venue that the temp exceeds 92-94 degrees. If a couple of posters here are so concerned with marchers practicing in, and/ or competing in, temps that exceed 92-94 degrees, then they really are asking to eliminate DCI altogether. That's because its likely that most Corps would have to halt practice conditions once they travel south of the Mason- Dixon line come early to mid July, and cancel most of the shows here as the 90'ish temperatures, and most especially the high humidity index, with its subsequent health risk, makes these venues in the south and southwest no less safer in the summer in these humidity havens than in Las Vegas, Nevada or in Phoenix, Arizona. And that's " a fact".. Jack.

Now this is my kind of informed discussion!  I appreciate your insights BRASSO.

[UKSuperman]

Forget all the health issues for a second. Someone tell me how and where DCI would benefit  from moving the championship to Las Vegas instead of keeping it in the almost centralized location that it's being held today? 

Edited March 31, 2017 by UKSuperman

[Stu]

58 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 ... Once a temperature exceeds 92-94 degrees, the precautions one needs to take are exactly the same, no matter the venue that the temp exceeds 92-94 degrees. If a couple of posters here are so concerned with marchers practicing in, and/ or competing in, temps that exceed 92-94 degrees, then they really are asking to eliminate DCI altogether. That's because its likely that most Corps would have to halt practice conditions once they travel south of the Mason- Dixon line come early to mid July, and cancel most of the shows here as the 90'ish temperatures, and most especially the high humidity index, with its subsequent health risk, makes these venues in the south and southwest no less safer in the summer in these humidity havens than in Las Vegas, Nevada or in Phoenix, Arizona. And that's " a fact".. Jack.

 No one is stating that DCI should eliminate outdoor activities in temps within the 90* - 94* mark and mild humidity.  But to say that the preventative measures are exactly the same, and thus implying that the elimination from danger is exactly the same, at a heat index of 92* as they are when a heat index is over 120* is ludicrous.  What we are advocating is canceling shows like what happened near Dallas a few years back where the real temp was near 120* and the heat index was near 130*, and not scheduling shows at all in desert regions where the heat index reaches over 106* on a daily basis.  Why?  Because as the heat index swells well beyond 100* preventative measures such as hydration and occasional rest in the shade are not nearly as effective as they are in heat index temps below 99*. And that is the actual fact with no Jack needed to spin the issue.

[Stu]

7 minutes ago, UKSuperman said:

Forget all the health issues for a second. Someone tell me how and where DCI would benefit  from moving the championship to Las Vegas instead of keeping it in the almost centralized location that it's being held today? 

It would benefit Oouga.

[BRASSO]

25 minutes ago, Stu said:

  to say that the preventative measures are exactly the same, at a heat index of 92* as they are when a heat index is over 120* is ludicrous. 

 No it isn't. Cite for us what additional precautions are necessary for one to take when the temp is 96 with a heat index of 115 ( due to off the chart humidity levels) and a dry temp of 115 ( low humidity ) ? They are pretty much the same, as its not the temperature that is the principal determining factor, it is what is called the " Heat Index ". As I said above, there is no material difference when the heat index is essentially the same. There is no evidence that I'm aware of that states that Las Vegas Nevada in August has more heat related impairments, or heat related strokes and deaths per capita than does ( for example ) high heat index humidity havens in Texas, South Carolina, Georgia, etc.... Heck, Chicago and Baltimore ( near moisture water that increases the humidity, thus the dangerous and all  important " Heat Index " & corresponding high risk ) have had more heat related strokes and deaths per capita over the years in July- August than has Las Vegas, Nevada during similar hot summer month period of the year.. I'm not saying that Las Vegas should be put on the map for a future summer show, just that Las Vegas, Nevada is no more prone to heat index related dangers to Corps marchers in the summer than is about a third to half of the venues that DCI already has on their summer schedule.

Edited March 31, 2017 by BRASSO

[Stu]

36 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 No it isn't. Cite for us what additional precautions are necessary for one to take when the temp is 96 with a heat index of 115 ( due to off the chart humidity levels) and a dry temp of 115 ( low humidity ) ? They are pretty much the same, as its not the temperature that is the principal determining factor, it is what is called the " Heat Index ". As I said above, there is no material difference when the heat index is essentially the same. There is no evidence that I'm aware of that states that Las Vegas Nevada in August has more heat related impairments, or heat related strokes and deaths per capita than does ( for example ) high heat index humidity havens in Texas, South Carolina, Georgia, etc.... Heck, Chicago and Baltimore ( near moisture water that increases the humidity, thus the dangerous and all  important " Heat Index " & corresponding high risk ) have had more heat related strokes and deaths per capita over the years in July- August than has Las Vegas, Nevada during similar hot summer month period of the year.. I'm not saying that Las Vegas should be put on the map for a future summer show, just that Las Vegas, Nevada is no more prone to heat index related dangers to Corps marchers in the summer than is about a third to half of the venues that DCI already has on their summer schedule.

Ummm... you missed where I actually used the words 'heat index'.

[wolfgang]

Add this to the mix: Quick internet search (ave July temp, avg July humidity, avg July heat index)

Las Vegas: 104, 19%, 102.3

Mesa, Az: 106, 30%, 113.6

Houston: 94, 55%, 106.3

[ouooga]

 

2 hours ago, UKSuperman said:

Forget all the health issues for a second. Someone tell me how and where DCI would benefit  from moving the championship to Las Vegas instead of keeping it in the almost centralized location that it's being held today? 

This discussion was a discussion of a show in Las Vegas, never moving Finals. But for the sake of discussion, the U.S. has four time zones, and Indianapolis is in the Eastern most, two states away from the Atlantic. Hardly central. In the discussion of proximity as well higher access to air seats, Texas is probably the best bet for Finals to get the highest attendance possible (yes, I get it, it's hot there too).

But to answer your question, if the discussion were to ever truly come up for the benefits of a Las Vegas Finals (it never will, I get it, still not advocating for it, but I'll always defend the idea with stats), DCI could offer a more affordable experience in a more accessible location to a wider audience compared to Indianapolis. Las Vegas has the capacity to offer lodging within five miles of the stadium to every fan at every desired price range without concern of reaching max occupancy, nor would the lodging prices increase dramatically as a result of demand.

Fun Fact: GenCon, the annual board game convention, takes place at Indianapolis Convention Center (adjacent to LOS) within one week of DCI Finals annually. It's attended by 60k individuals. As a result of these two events, hotel occupancy in the downtown Indianapolis area usually reaches 100% during the two weeks in August, with some show attendees for both events unable to find a hotel within five miles of the venue at all, and prices increase high enough as a result of demand that the entire state of Indiana's average hotel rate in August increases significantly compared to any other time the rest of the year. To recap, prices go up in one downtown area for two weeks so much that it has a significant effect on the statewide average for the entire month.

Meanwhile Las Vegas also has direct flights at a cheaper rate than the national average from virtually every major airport in the U.S, and the average hotel room rate on the Las Vegas Strip in August is around $120/night, and around half that in the Downtown area. So DCI still charges the same amount per ticket, but the costs that aren't associated with them decrease dramatically. That's a viable strategy to increase attendance without decreasing bottom line (aside from any y-o-y benefits currently received by LOS, I get it, this isn't 1 to 1).

 

2 hours ago, Stu said:

It would benefit Oouga.

That it would, greatly. Still not what I'm advocating, as I've said several times throughout this discussion. I've left evidence of that below, just in case it wasn't known.

 

On 3/29/2017 at 8:33 AM, ouooga said:

Ha, I had this conversation last night. Probably not Finals, but I'm still a proponent of a Vegas regional or even just a major show in our new indoor stadium.

On 3/29/2017 at 9:42 AM, ouooga said:

I'm not saying Finals should or shouldn't be here, but we're the 6th largest school district in the country, with more than 50 high schools and 60 middle schools. That's not enough housing for tons of corps to practice?

On 3/29/2017 at 9:54 AM, ouooga said:

Also for the sake of discussion of Finals (again, not advocating, but defending the notion as not ridiculous none-the-less), we literally have more hotel rooms than any other city in the nation, more than 75% of which are located exactly one street over from the stadium's proposed location. Meanwhile Indy's occupancy sells out months in advance every year, which also hinders/is hindered by the GenCon crowd which takes place in the same location within one week of Finals annually.

With those insights, I'm confused why anyone would think this Raiders stadium wouldn't be a viable option for a show.

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by ouooga
Took out some Indiana stats that I couldn't verify as public

[xandandl]

5 hours ago, ouooga said:

 

 

Fun Fact: GenCon, the annual board game convention, takes place at Indianapolis Convention Center (adjacent to LOS) within one week of DCI Finals annually. It's attended by 60k individuals. As a result of these two events, hotel occupancy in the downtown Indianapolis area usually reaches 100% during the two weeks in August, with some show attendees for both events unable to find a hotel within five miles of the venue at all, and prices increase high enough as a result of demand that the entire state of Indiana's average hotel rate in August increases significantly compared to any other time the rest of the year. To recap, prices go up in one downtown area for two weeks so much that it has a significant effect on the statewide average for the entire month.

Meanwhile Las Vegas also has direct flights at a cheaper rate than the national average from virtually every major airport in the U.S, and the average hotel room rate on the Las Vegas Strip in August is around $120/night, and around half that in the Downtown area. So DCI still charges the same amount per ticket, but the costs that aren't associated with them decrease dramatically. That's a viable strategy to increase attendance without decreasing bottom line (aside from any y-o-y benefits currently received by LOS, I get it, this isn't 1 to 1).

 

 

 

 

Thanks for explaining why Indianapolis is so expensive for all of us not paying for our lodging on corporate accounts.

Edited April 1, 2017 by xandandl

[Stu]

1 hour ago, wolfgang said:

Add this to the mix: Quick internet search (ave July temp, avg July humidity, avg July heat index)

Las Vegas: 104, 19%, 102.3

Mesa, Az: 106, 30%, 113.6

Houston: 94, 55%, 106.3

I am still an advocate that if the heat index on any day is over 100*, no matter where a corps is rehearsing, the corps should extremely limit day-time outside rehearsals; and if the heat index is over 110* the corps should not rehearse outside at all.  And if the average temp, according to the heat index, of a location averages over 100* in the months of July and August, DCI should either schedule those locations in June, if heat index permits, or just not scheduled an event at that location.