Jeff Ream Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 1 hour ago, ContraFart said: Now I think you are disagreeing with me just to disagree. he'd never do that 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNModdison Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 1 hour ago, ContraFart said: A 2.5% error (which is .5 in a single caption) is not tolerated in any industry I know of. Probably have to check and see who judged. My guess is that judge on Finals night judged earlier in the season and had BD above SCV in guard. Even though the judges are told to judge the performance in front of them, some judges seem to have favoritism. I'm not saying this particular judge did that, but that could possibly explain it. Winning guard by .2 one night, and then losing by .3 seems large to me as well. I have always thought of it like this: a .1 gap means they are barely ahead of the next group, .2 there is a discernible difference, but still in the same ball park, and .3 gap would mean they are almost not in the same ball park. So, having one judge have one group ahead, and then almost not in the same ball park the next night seemed like a bit of a statement to me. Just my 2 cents, for whatever that's worth. lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: and maybe he has access to info you don't. there are people out here smarter than you, with more inside scoop than you, that dont care to share it with you. Maybe he does have direct inside access; he has never claimed that and actually stated that he really does not know. And sure there are smarter people than me; I just ask for proof when someone openly claims there 'Are' many DCI judges that do not reward new designs properly as fact and not mere opinion; especially when the recap sheets prove otherwise. Edited August 22, 2017 by Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: polls. they are usually +/-3% Polling is about predicting, DCI is a direct evaluation 1 hour ago, MikeD said: How do you know it is an "error"? The 0.5 variance might well be due to a difference in the performances, one corps having a slightly lesser performance while the other a little better run. How do you know it was not an error? Therein lies the problem. There is so much fluidity and volatility, there is no way to be confident in the score, hence accusations of favoritism and conspiracy. I will use the example again. Take this years semis performance and tell them it was the finals performance and give them the finals scores. Will they know that the video they are watching had SCV .2 ahead in guard and .2 ahead in vis prof? Or will they defend BD up .3 in Guard and a perfect score in vis prof (a whole .6 point difference)? No. Because the scores once on paper create a confirmation bias. Edited August 22, 2017 by ContraFart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 10 minutes ago, Stu said: Maybe he does have direct inside access; he has never claimed that and actually stated that he really does not know. And sure there are smarter people than me; I just ask for proof when someone openly claims there 'Are' many DCI judges that do not reward new designs properly as fact and not mere opinion; especially when the recap sheets prove otherwise. and we know you take everything so over the top literally and parse participles if it gives you a chance to argue. but given how many times various judges have been chucked under the proverbial bus on here and elsewhere, there seems to be some merit to what hes saying, and i appreciate him not naming names. also, looking at how much DCI has been recruiting new blood the last few years, i'd say they see it too. Just gotta get the newer faces worked in, get them some experience and feedback from the corps, and you may see some changes in who is doing what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Just now, ContraFart said: Polling is about predicting, DCI is a direct evaluation How do you know it was not an error? Therein lies the problem. There is so much fluidity and volatility, there is no way to be confident in the score, hence accusations of favoritism and conspiracy. I will use the example again. Take this years semis performance and tell them it was the finals performance and give them the finals scores. Will they know that the video they are watching had SCV .2 ahead in guard and .2 ahead in vis prof? Or will they defend BD up .3 in Guard and a perfect score in vis prof (a while .6 point difference)? No. Because the scores once on paper create a confirmation bias. on a subjective sheet...just as subjective as the almighty tick was and i'll say it again...the judge, judged the show of the day. friday meant nothing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Jeff Ream said: on a subjective sheet...just as subjective as the almighty tick was and i'll say it again...the judge, judged the show of the day. friday meant nothing If that is the case the name on the judging sheet has more weight than the performance on the field. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Guns Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 32 minutes ago, SNModdison said: Probably have to check and see who judged. My guess is that judge on Finals night judged earlier in the season and had BD above SCV in guard. Even though the judges are told to judge the performance in front of them, some judges seem to have favoritism. I'm not saying this particular judge did that, but that could possibly explain it. Winning guard by .2 one night, and then losing by .3 seems large to me as well. I have always thought of it like this: a .1 gap means they are barely ahead of the next group, .2 there is a discernible difference, but still in the same ball park, and .3 gap would mean they are almost not in the same ball park. So, having one judge have one group ahead, and then almost not in the same ball park the next night seemed like a bit of a statement to me. Just my 2 cents, for whatever that's worth. lol Finals night judge did indeed judge BD and SCV guard earlier in the season. July 28th, Nashville show. And he/she had BD over SCV in guard 18.6-18.3. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 16 hours ago, ContraFart said: I thought Saturday night was better. See how personal bias can effect outcomes? Then I'm not sure I trust your judgment. Go ask a Crown 2015 member if they thought their Saturday run was better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 4 hours ago, Ghost said: Then I propose DCP moderators pick a DCP topic of current interest, lay down the rules, and let STU and BRASSO have a debate. I want BRASSO in the red trunks please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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