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17 minutes ago, dcifan1999 said:

I appreciate your optimism, but one argument I have always made, and feel strongly about is the whole commitment to the Irish theme, and too often done in a forced way.

That said, it's a pretty bold statement to say that Pioneer is further along than they have ever been. Through the 90's, and even some years since their success in the mid 90's, Pioneer has been very strong.

However, based on what the corps has done the past number of years, coupled with the fact that it's only December 6, having only held a few auditions/camp type rehearsals, I'm curious what makes you say this.

This makes me have a few questions. Since things are further along than they have ever been:

1. Are numbers greater than they have been at this point of auditioned and accepted members?

2. Is the talent/experience level greater?

Having been around the activity a long time, and having spent some time on the brass staff, as well as being at camps, I'm very curious to see what your response is.

For example, in 1997, Pioneer went Division 1, and had a full hornline, but that wasn't the case until almost the season, and even then many of the members were barely playing the show, if it all. I was dating a member of the hornline that season while I was marching in another corps, and was able to learn this information first hand.

Also, in 2005, we averaged about 30 members of the hornline at camps until about April, when the numbers went up.

Based on the size the corps and hornline has been in recent years, and their talent level in performance, I'd love to know.

1. Yes. We have 31 brass registered for January camp with 36 days left until camp. This number is not including members who have previous commitments (so they can't attend camp) and those who have just been cut from other drum corps that we will be reaching out to.

2. This is my first year with Pioneer, so I couldn't say for sure if the talent level is higher. What I can say is that these students are hungry, and they have been pushing the staff for instruction. We are currently making our way through our brass fundamental program through videos and will begin Skype private lessons shortly.

Our goal for the January camp is (and has been since September 12 when we started) 50 brass members in attendance. I have no doubt that we will reach this mark, and I look forward to sharing pictures (and maybe even a video) of what they accomplish.

At the end of the day, this is not about comparing specific years of the past to what we are doing. The students are focused on making great sounds together, moving together, and being the best version of themselves that they can be. Bold statements are made when you believe strongly in what you're doing, and in this case, what the students are doing.

I can't wait to share their work with everyone. #GrowPio

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, dcifan1999 said:

 

Also, in 2005, we averaged about 30 members of the hornline at camps until about April, when the numbers went up.

 

I'm presuming that the "we" in the sentence above does not refer to the Madison Scouts, the corps listed as your drum corps experience in the bio you posted.

The reader(s) can only presume you are carrying a pretty big chip on your shoulder for some reason and why you disdain any positive posting about Pioneer. Perhaps you might explain your stance better.

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2 minutes ago, xandandl said:

I'm presuming that the "we" in the sentence above does not refer to the Madison Scouts, the corps listed as your drum corps experience in the bio you posted.

The reader(s) can only presume you are carrying a pretty big chip on your shoulder for some reason and why you disdain any positive posting about Pioneer. Perhaps you might explain your stance better.

I apologize, I was involved with the staff at Pioneer in 2005.

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7 minutes ago, PioBrass18 said:

1. Yes. We have 31 brass registered for January camp with 36 days left until camp. This number is not including members who have previous commitments (so they can't attend camp) and those who have just been cut from other drum corps that we will be reaching out to.

2. This is my first year with Pioneer, so I couldn't say for sure if the talent level is higher. What I can say is that these students are hungry, and they have been pushing the staff for instruction. We are currently making our way through our brass fundamental program through videos and will begin Skype private lessons shortly.

Our goal for the January camp is (and has been since September 12 when we started) 50 brass members in attendance. I have no doubt that we will reach this mark, and I look forward to sharing pictures (and maybe even a video) of what they accomplish.

At the end of the day, this is not about comparing specific years of the past to what we are doing. The students are focused on making great sounds together, moving together, and being the best version of themselves that they can be. Bold statements are made when you believe strongly in what you're doing, and in this case, what the students are doing.

I can't wait to share their work with everyone. #GrowPio

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for the info, and congrats on the position. My questions rise from the fact that you posted that Pioneer is further along than they have ever been, and based on your reply, your opinion is hard to take seriously.

I'm glad the kids are hungry, and that you have the 31 registered for January camp, but the truth and fact of the matter is this does not show that Pioneer is further along, nor does it show that Pioneer is growing, as that number is actually concerning in my opinion. I can tell you for certain that the number is lower than it has been for Pioneer many years, and the fact that the kids are hungry does not show growth or greater progress.

I'm all for being excited, but I'm also for being realistic and factual.

The fact of the matter is Pioneer currently has similar numbers they've had for January camp in the past, which is still less than half of virtually all other world class corps, and even many open class corps. In addition, Pioneer is once again typecasting themselves in terms of show concept, as well as continually missing many opportunities for recruiting. As someone that lives in Chicago, and works with a number of programs, I have yet to see any efforts to get kids to come to Milwaukee from this area. When I walk into various schools throughout the Chicago area, I see posters and info for many other corps, from all across the country, and nothing from Pioneer.

Keep going with the optimism, and I hope you find success there, but I'm not holding out hope that things will improve much, if at all.

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5 hours ago, dcifan1999 said:

Thank you for the info, and congrats on the position. My questions rise from the fact that you posted that Pioneer is further along than they have ever been, and based on your reply, your opinion is hard to take seriously.

I'm glad the kids are hungry, and that you have the 31 registered for January camp, but the truth and fact of the matter is this does not show that Pioneer is further along, nor does it show that Pioneer is growing, as that number is actually concerning in my opinion. I can tell you for certain that the number is lower than it has been for Pioneer many years, and the fact that the kids are hungry does not show growth or greater progress.

I'm all for being excited, but I'm also for being realistic and factual.

The fact of the matter is Pioneer currently has similar numbers they've had for January camp in the past, which is still less than half of virtually all other world class corps, and even many open class corps. In addition, Pioneer is once again typecasting themselves in terms of show concept, as well as continually missing many opportunities for recruiting. As someone that lives in Chicago, and works with a number of programs, I have yet to see any efforts to get kids to come to Milwaukee from this area. When I walk into various schools throughout the Chicago area, I see posters and info for many other corps, from all across the country, and nothing from Pioneer.

Keep going with the optimism, and I hope you find success there, but I'm not holding out hope that things will improve much, if at all.

I appreciate your insight and candidness of what you think is/isn't happening.

Please know that we are doing everything we can to give these students a great experience. I'm sorry that you do not feel that our efforts are making a difference.

The kids feel great about what is happening, as there were only 21 brass in attendance for the January camp last year. To be 10 students higher than that with 36 days left until camp provides a lot to be proud of. I know I'M proud of them.

Again, thank you for your opinion. I look forward to keeping everyone updated as we accomplish our goals...no matter how unrealistic or outlandish you may think they are.

Andy

Brass Caption Supervisor

 

Edited by PioBrass18
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19 hours ago, dcifan1999 said:

Thank you for the info, and congrats on the position. My questions rise from the fact that you posted that Pioneer is further along than they have ever been, and based on your reply, your opinion is hard to take seriously.

I'm glad the kids are hungry, and that you have the 31 registered for January camp, but the truth and fact of the matter is this does not show that Pioneer is further along, nor does it show that Pioneer is growing, as that number is actually concerning in my opinion. I can tell you for certain that the number is lower than it has been for Pioneer many years, and the fact that the kids are hungry does not show growth or greater progress.

I'm all for being excited, but I'm also for being realistic and factual.

The fact of the matter is Pioneer currently has similar numbers they've had for January camp in the past, which is still less than half of virtually all other world class corps, and even many open class corps. In addition, Pioneer is once again typecasting themselves in terms of show concept, as well as continually missing many opportunities for recruiting. As someone that lives in Chicago, and works with a number of programs, I have yet to see any efforts to get kids to come to Milwaukee from this area. When I walk into various schools throughout the Chicago area, I see posters and info for many other corps, from all across the country, and nothing from Pioneer.

Keep going with the optimism, and I hope you find success there, but I'm not holding out hope that things will improve much, if at all.

Andy, 

This is exactly why posting anything positive on DCP is worthless because the basis of many of these posts is to attack the person or the corps responsible.

Radio silence may be a better option - and folks can see/hear for themselves in January.

 

 

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One of these days a Corps with small numbers of brass are just going to put them all in the pit (battery too while we are at it) , amp the bejeepers out of them, and put abt 100 guard on the field.

I wonder how that would go over?

 

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21 hours ago, copyright said:

Andy, 

This is exactly why posting anything positive on DCP is worthless because the basis of many of these posts is to attack the person or the corps responsible.

Radio silence may be a better option - and folks can see/hear for themselves in January.

 

 

But there might be critics seeing/hearing the corps.  By your logic, it would be better to never go public at all.  No Internet posts, no camps, no performances, no corps.  Only then will the goal of no criticism be achieved.

Yes, arguing with a critic sometimes proves futile.  But refraining from any posting at all would be an overreaction, in my view.

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Well, *I'm* looking forward to Pioneer, and would like to hear more about how they're doing.

Mike

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Thanks, all! We're looking forward to helping these students be the best they can be. We appreciate the support and constructive feedback; both are equally important to reaching our goals. See you on the road!

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