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That had to be Pat Stiglianese. Pat Stig was his "shortened" nickname, no pun intended. Nicest guy you ever would want to meet....he'd do anything to help the corps, or anyone in the corps. And he also could be as tough as nails if necessary. I'm guessing at least some of that toughness came from his military days in Vietnam. He passed away several years ago. A great man.

Heh... in the fall of 1967, Tom Swan handed me a French horn and said, "this is your horn." Simple as that. LOL. Long story short... didn't march a field show until 1971. Still playing French horn. On the Frenchie for 11 of the 12 years I marched, in a local-circuit junior corps and then DCA's Long Island Sunrisers. One year on mellophone, in junior corps. I hated playing mellophone, probably because I sucked at it. But sometimes, back in the day when I got started, the makeup of the horn line, in particular with the small local-circuit corps, was determined by such things as "he's a big guy... put him on baritone or contra".... or "put the skinny guy on soprano." Quite scientific.

clearly it is not simply a black and white decision, and some are green with envy

I thought it might be helpful to get some perspective from someone who has actually marched with Phantom. The one year I've marched with them, I thought the teaching and support staff was extremely professional and that they really treat members well. There wasn't any yelling or conduct by teaching staff that I would say was either too harsh or uncalled for. We worked efficiently, we worked well, and we felt loved by our staff as well as the audiences we played for. Despite the lack of a full day off through the entire season or lengthy water breaks (we only got one over 10 minutes in the south when the temperature was in the 90's), I thought that they were great at getting us the important things. We always got decent amounts of sleep, lots of food, medical attention, and great housing. I loved the experience, the brotherhood, and am planning to age out with them. We enjoy our fun traditions, our secrets, and yes, we DO interact with members from other corps. Just look at a PR member's Facebook page, plenty of pictures of them hanging out with friends in other corps in jackets or even in uniforms for TOC shows.. There's been a lot of talk on this thread about silly things like scores, placements, and general disrespect towards the corps I love. I doubt that that's a good way to choose a corps. The only legitimate reason to pick one of these corps over the other is day-to-day life, which was great with Phantom. That being said, the only way to REALLY find out whether Phantom works for you or not is to go visit an audition camp, get a feel for how the corps works, and talk to vets. The way the staff behaves is very consistent through the season, starting from the audition camps. This means you will already have a good chance to see how you'll be treated. Your experience there will be worth far more than the testimony of anyone else in this thread. SUTA

http://www.crossmen.org/news Markworth

I started out in 1972 with the Racine Kilties organization. I marched through the 1977 season. I am very old school minded about drum corps; so I'm not into the electronics and non-G horns. First off the bands never asked (or wanted) anything to do with drum corps at all. Now all they do is promote band generated agendas through certain key people associated with DCI. This is done so as to influence drum corps to their (bands) liking. Back in my day drum corps built and maintained it's own way of competing, songwriting and crowd pleasure by understanding the "G" bugle. The "G" bugle is pitchy in nature, but provides such power for the player. I have watched several members of the audience hurry back to their seats by only hearing a C major chord of a corps that was about to compete. The band officials have been jealous of that kind of response for eons. Music instructors that lacked real talent pushed for DCI to switch over to a B-flat horn, so that more music could be written and played well. So people that didn't know any better bought it. But Kenny Norman has arranged (for "G" bugles) such charts as MacArthur's Park, Roundabout, War Child, Chattanooga and Auld Lang Syne for musical impact and appreciation. Matter-of-fact in the chart for Chattanooga at the end of the song the drum line mimics an old locomotive going down the tracks. All music or sound was generated on the field by way of the horn line or drum line. None of this electronic stuff. Garfield Cadet took a penalty point just to sing Amen at the end of one of their songs. Then their director partioned DCI to have the human voice (other than the drum major) be heard on the field of competion. Old school drum corps did everything they needed to with the equipment that they could carry onto the field. Now there's 3 or 4 gators bringing out props. There is a whole lot more that I could say about this matter, but before I go I will say this. As far as the musician is concerned he/she became better at their instrument; their individual skills went above the staff of where they started. Music directors (not all of them) became angry, because their students were learning at a rate that wasn't due to them. They wanted to control that. Mr. Holland if you want more information just let me know.

With 243 horns that may not be possible. Lets hope.

Bus trips? You got to ride on busses? LOL! Bus trips in DCA were a treat for me, because I drove almost everywhere! How's THIS example for you: Westshore, 1992. I drive 9 and a half hours to Hershey to catch the busses for Ontario. I arrive at precisely the time I told Dan Bowman I would. NO busses! They left without me. I refilled the gas tank and left Hershey for Ontario. I crossed the border with pocket change. I'm guessing 18 hours ONE way. It felt like 18 hours. After the show, I stayed in Hamilton at a friends house, got up the next morning and drove home. The corps footed the bill for my gas and years later, I got even with Dan Bowman. I gave his 15 year old son a Marshall half stack ( 100 watts) for his guitar. VERY noisy in Dan's house for a while*. LOLOL! *Dan still likes me. :)

After reading this about their founder, http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/2014/11/ascend-family-mourns-passing-of-ray-route/ prayers go out to the Blue Knights family. Thank you Ray for the corps you put on a route to excellence.

Chuck, back then I was something like 5 feet tall and was skinny enough to disappear if I stood sideways!!! LOL

Never been to UT, only one of 4 states I haven't made (Nevada, Alaska, and Hawaii) YET! And the changes to those frequent flier points is making it more difficult. But I know you have great connections. However, I have been told by New England Yankees (not the Red Sox type of Yankees), that it is the Atlantic Ocean air mixing it's saltish hue above the Massachusetts bogs which makes their berries superior (no not that Wisconsin lake); quality over quantity type of thing I am told. I am not sure how Ocean Spray explains that sort of thing with their many bogs in Cheddar land and Michigan. Everytime I ask at their sampling plant in Plymouth, Mass they don't answer directly but just give me another free sample tasting to devour and point the way to the chowdah houses.

All that said and out of the way.. Guess Who Left to Right, one at a time, please # 532 ? https://www.flickr.com/photos/30432143@N00/15731205582/ (Click on pic to enlarge / enhance) Don't know who the three suspects are, but something tells me that pic was taken in a town with an American Indian name.

Jacqueline Kennedy? Who are the two guys?

Let's' see... Started with my local Jr. Corps. (1968) Didn't know a thing. A "beginning horn instructor" taught me how to get my first note from a single piston baritone. I don't recall the corps having a dues structure in place, but we were required to bring a small amount of money for travel, when we went to Legion or VFW state championships. With no hope whatsoever of making finals in such a contest, we always sat in the stands and watched the other corps, after coming in dead last in prelims. Paper drives, bake sales, etc, were the fundraisers of choice. DCI didn't exist when I began my time in Jr. Corps. Vietnam and the draft put me halfway around the world, when DCI came into being. Drum Corps was one thing when I left and quite another, by the time I returned. By the way, I was in the ranks of the Kilties, as you described when you were standing in retreat. :)

The group was put together by Music City Mystique and is made up of guys from the Nashville area. Alumni of Middle Tennessee State, Father Ryan HS, and a couple of Innovative Percussion employees, etc. I believe the music was done by Dustin Schletzer of Father Ryan who marched SCV and taught Cavaliers for a bit under Jim Casella as I recall.

I havent carried a bari in over a dozen years. My shoulders aren't happy doing it again. hahaahah.

yknow, i marched the other midwest corps up in Madison. I had friends who marched in Cavies, and friends in Phantom. Both produced great peformers, and they never had anything bad to say about their experiences at either corps. I will say the all male vibe is like nothing you'll experience in a coed corps. Each corps has a different mentality and approach to how they rehearse and perform. All corps will make you push yourself harder and longer than you've ever had to before. Each corps will create a family around you, as the members are all working towards a common goal. I think it boils down to what type of show you want to perform? Both styles are radically different in playing and marching. But both corps have good brass lines. There's no way to tell you which you will like better. We dont know you, your personality, and how you'll adapt to each VERY different circumstances. Only you can figure out where you belong, and that's by auditioning. I auditioned at 3 different World Class Corps, before I auditioned for Madison. I successfully made each of their hornlines, but felt most at home in Madison. But only YOU can figure out where you belong. You need to simply attend a camp at each and see how you like them. Cavies, much like Madison tend to have a very high retention rate. PR has a good retention rate, but I don't think it's more than 60%. Which is still high. Either way, we dont know you, and we don't know the feel of the lines you are auditioning for from your perspective. Only you will know where you belong, and you won't know it until you try one out. If you like it stay, if you dont, go to the other and see if you like it more.

2010,2011,2012,2013,2014 were all cool shows. 2012 was specifically designed for coolness. Ironically I think your statement fits so much better for phantom regiment, who's had a sleepfest going down since 08 ended. To be fair, 2011 and 2010 mildly disturbed my slumber.

Why not ask regiment.org? They seem to be accepting all sorts of SUTAble questions from interested parties.

meanwhile our OP still ponders his decision while the posters pontificate away... Are they being too cavalier in their styles or too regimented in their opinions?

Don't agree.

Guard instructors are very, very strong particularly with Apo, Escalante, and Subel aboard. Since they come with Cavaliers, Santa Clara, Cadets, and Regiment in their heritage, what the Crossmen style will be should be interesting.

If you like to throw jolly ranchers and lay on the ground in someone else's space at retreat, the Cavaliers are probably for you.

And if cymbals are on the field then they are also a visual element that's supposed to be looked at. If they don't interest you, then don't look at them. Just like I don't look at all the other visual elements that might not interest me. You've run yourself into the ground here. And yes, I'm a percussionist. So what? You are very plainly not a percussionist yet I don't consider this a handicap when it comes to having an opinion on the matter. But what does this have to do with discussion - though it's less a discussion and more you universalizing your opinions and getting called on it - and why does me being a percussionist mean "end of discussion"? If those awful cymbals really are so distracting, then go get a hot dog when a cymbal line is on the field. That would be a shame though. If you skip SCV you'll be missing one of the finest percussion sections to ever grace the field . . . and their cymbal line is an integral part of that.

Adjusted your post slightly to better reflect reality.

What exactly are we supposed to be looking at during a drum corps show? I didn't know there were rules for this. I'm a pit person so I often find myself watching the pit for most of the show. Y'know, that large distracting mass of huge, weird, and expensive instruments that sits right between the audience and the corps. My sister watches the guard the entire show, a section that I barely notice at most time. Many others focus on the snares, others on feet, etc. Yes, there will be featured sections/visual elements/etc. . . . but there's always so much going on the field in a modern drum corps show that I don't think there's anywhere your eyes are supposed to be. If people aren't paying attention to your feature because of some kids playing plates in the back field then your feature is poorly staged and/or designed. And if you can't hear the musical contribution cymbals make on the field then you're not listening. Like a lot of percussive effects in both battery and sideline it can be subtle, something that's often felt and not heard (the same thing can be said for low and middle brass TBH) but it's there.

So people can rationalize 15 Tubas even though the Synths basically carry the bottom end sound these days for a lot of groups, but having 5 people out on the field adding color, texture, nuance, shaping, direction, motivation, and impact to the marching percussive musical package is a distraction? Interesting. A poorly written cymbal visual show is no more distracting than poor guard costumes, poor flag work, dirty guard work, bad visual design, poor marching technique, etc.

I am hoping adding a cymbal line means the Scouts are going to keep exploring jazz. Snares playing cymbals (ride cymbal style)provided by the cymbal line is an awesome sound we rarely hear anymore.....hopefully Madison will add this wonderful sound back to dc music.

cymbal lines are way less distracting that narration and super synths...