Hopblog thoughts on "Hash-gate"

[LisaLisaMoMeesa]

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QUOTE(Kyle B @ Aug 16 2007, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Back on topic and getting the last 2 pages out of the way so it doesn't get closed.

What do you think about George's response on his blog to the hash's.

I'll re-state the fact that I think he did the right thing in raising the issue, and while he didn't do everything perfect, I don't blame him for responding to the crowd.

I think it was very magnameous (I know it's "magnanimous" ..I just like to watch DanS get all crazy about me misspelling it :P ) of him. I don't think he owed anyone an explanation. Especially since Jesus H. Christ himself could have said "Hey - George is going to stall the show a bit so that the sponsors of the show can do what they're supposed to do. I know that other corps went on w/o the hashes or with faded hashes, but that doesn't mean the Cadets have to" and everyone would still hate George Hopkins.

[jwillis35]

They didnt perform on a hashless field. They stopped the show and refused to go on until things were to their satisfaction. Im pointing out the irony of different sets of standards.

This is where people get themselves in trouble. You ARE completely wrong about this, and that is not a subjective opinion. There were NO different set of standards enforced. THE STANDARD, as you so falsely use that term, is for the field to be appropriately marked, hashes and all. Whether you like hash marks or not, or whether one corps can perform with them and others cannot is not the issue. Having them on the field is the STANDARD, it is what we expect when all corps take the field.

So the Cadets and GH clearly did not ask for anything that was not supposed to be there in the first place. The fact that others chose to ignore the problem is their own business, but it doesn't make it wrong when someone speaks up and says "hey, this needs to be better and I would prefer for my members to march a show with the field lined appropriately."

We do not need to turn this into a "my corps is better than your corps" argument, or a "my corps was braver and tougher and they do not complain and just get the job done no matter what." That's great, I am glad that some of your favorite corps are really amazing. Kudos to them. The FACT IS: the field was not lined appropriately, and someone had the guts to say "fix it."

Now, how it was all handled, yes, that could have been better, but I have HUGE amounts of respect for Mr. Hopkins for admitting that, and for having done that so openly. How many of you would have been as honest and open about your mistakes? And judging by some of your posts, I take it many of you do not make mistakes. Your shows would be perfect, your shows would please ALL fans, and you would never offend anyone. DCP is a great, great community of DCI fans and we love to discuss, argue, ponder, theorize, and assess. I love that about this forum, but there are some who while playing arm-chair general never put themselves in the position of someone like GH even for a moment. The only conclusion they come up with is that he is wrong and they would always be right. Many fail to analyze the situation from all angles.

This is one of those situations. It is easy to say he stopped the show, that he asked for something that other corps were not getting. But in truth those other corps were supposed to get hash marks as well. Mr. Hopkins had the guts to make DCI aware of that. Others maybe did not want to ruffle feathers or maybe they felt the field was sufficient at the time. It's their call and I respect them as well. I thought it showed amazing class that some of the other directors called Mr. Hopkins to see how he was after quarters. They all have class, including GH.

JW

[randomnoise]

I have only skimmed this thread, but I would make the point that no one likes a delay - especially not the performers and staff. You are ready, in the zone, hyped, and then - BANG - you have to wait. It sucks.

We have Hop's explanation, and it's a good one. Some folks seem to think he did this for some kind of advantage. He did not. It is actually something of a disadvantage to wait.

But worth it for a correctly marked field, I suppose.

[George82]

I'm not weighing in on George or his contention that not having hash marks was a safety issue. I do know that 23 DCA corps marched DCA prelims last year with no hash marks, only one line on the field (the 50), in the middle of hurricane Ernesto's storm surge, and it wasn't considered a safety issue.

Talk about differing perceptions of what is a safety issue...

Beg to differ with you there pal. As an instructor with one of the corps who was out there in that mess SAFETY was a definite concern.

[George82]

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QUOTE(Kyle B @ Aug 16 2007, 03:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First off, DCA and DCI corps are totally different, absolutely. But to say that it's that easy is a load! I'll show you my video of us playing Rocky Point moving our butt's off at around 190 and taking decent size steps. I know the Bucs are hauling just as well.

I'm sick of this DCA is just old people mentality, hell I used to have it. I marched 2 years of Crossmen and every run through I was tired. I've marched Bush for 2 years, and even thought I've put on a little weight, I'm tired at the end of every run-through. Heck, I think I'm a much better marcher then I was back then since I push myself even further. This isn't Alumni corps (not to say anything bad about them, but most All Age corps have members around the same age as DCI and older) where you park and bark a lot, we move.

March a top DCA show, then tell me it's easy.

...a "little weight"??? :D

Well stated post. Michael Gaines wrote our visual program in 2004 & 2005 and they certainly were on par with any DCI corps...far from easy.

Love ya man...miss you.

[IRMO]

They didnt perform on a hashless field. They stopped the show and refused to go on until things were to their satisfaction. Im pointing out the irony of different sets of standards.

Until things were to their satisfaction OR until things were done as agreed? Two different animals yet you continue to choose the rabid one.

[LisaLisaMoMeesa]

Since the mods closed Lee's thread but didn't move his comment, I'll post it here:

Drumlaw80 said:

I understand that the Cadets delayed their appearance at DCI Quarterfinals to to the fact that the hash marks on the field of the Rose Bowl were nonexistent before they performed. Because of this delay, they were assessed a penalty by DCI ... and then mysteriously not assesed the penalty. I also understand that many fans have been extremely critical of this decision, even to the point of launching hostile insults at the corps members and, of course, at George Hopkins.

It is surprising, and perhaps a little sad, at how hostile DCI fans can be when "their" performance is interrupted ... forgetting that the kids in the corps have nothing to do with the decision. Given the Cadets' extremely diifficult and fast drill, not having hash marks is a safety issue more than anything else. For all we know, a lack of a hash mark might have resulted in a 20-kid pile-up in the closer. Whose best interests is that? If you perform and utilize hash marks all year, you should not be expected to perform without them on the most important show of the year.

I have personal experience with this issue, as an instructor of the 1994 Santa Clara Vanguard. That year, rain conditions made the field in Boston extremely slippery and dangerous for the kids in the corps. As the corps took to the starting line, DCI wisely pulled the plug on a performance that would have likely injured a few members. Shortly thereafter, I saw fans scream things at the Vanguard members that can only be written via ##### on DCP, and in one case, throwing things at our pit (a full can of Coke). Given the fact tha the corps members had nothing to do with this decision, I could not believe the hostility the fans directed at the kids, which continued all weekend.

Look, I am one of the first people to call George Hopkins, or anyone else for that matter, out when something is done that is not in the best interests of our activity. But, you should take a deep breath and think this issue through before you simply label George's action as disgraceful etc. He did the right thing, and was only looking out for the corps.

Personally, given the Cadets' drill, I don't think his decision likely had anything to do with chasing a trophy. It think it had to do with the safety of the kids, which must be paramount to all else.

Lee

[LisaLisaMoMeesa]

To which I replied

"Lee....they weren't throwing the can of coke at the SCV pit, they were throwing it at DCI. The kids just happened to be there [/sarcasm]"

I am saddened to see that the audience at a drum corps show has become nothing better than a crowd at a Jerry SPringer show when the DNA results are announced.

:(

Edited August 16, 2007 by LisaLisaMoMeesa

[drumlaw80]

I understand that the Cadets delayed their appearance at DCI Quarterfinals to to the fact that the hash marks on the field of the Rose Bowl were nonexistent before they performed. Because of this delay, they were assessed a penalty by DCI ... and then mysteriously not assesed the penalty. I also understand that many fans have been extremely critical of this decision, even to the point of launching hostile insults at the corps members and, of course, at George Hopkins.

It is surprising, and perhaps a little sad, at how hostile DCI fans can be when "their" performance is interrupted ... forgetting that the kids in the corps have nothing to do with the decision. Given the Cadets' extremely diifficult and fast drill, not having hash marks is a safety issue more than anything else. For all we know, a lack of a hash mark might have resulted in a 20-kid pile-up in the closer. Whose best interests is that? If you perform and utilize hash marks all year, you should not be expected to perform without them on the most important show of the year.

I have personal experience with this issue, as an instructor of the 1994 Santa Clara Vanguard. That year, rain conditions made the field in Boston extremely slippery and dangerous for the kids in the corps. As the corps took to the starting line, DCI wisely pulled the plug on a performance that would have likely injured a few members. Shortly thereafter, I saw fans scream things at the Vanguard members that can only be written via ##### on DCP, and in one case, throwing things at our pit (a full can of Coke). Given the fact tha the corps members had nothing to do with this decision, I could not believe the hostility the fans directed at the kids, which continued all weekend.

Look, I am one of the first people to call George Hopkins, or anyone else for that matter, out when something is done that is not in the best interests of our activity. But, you should take a deep breath and think this issue through before you simply label George's action as disgraceful etc. He did the right thing, and was only looking out for the corps.

Personally, given the Cadets' drill, I don't think his decision likely had anything to do with chasing a trophy. It think it had to do with the safety of the kids, which must be paramount to all else.

Lee

[Liam]

Well, since you can re-post yours here from the other (closed) thread, so can I :P

Wanted at least to comment on this part

Because of this delay, they were assessed a penalty by DCI ... and then mysteriously not assesed the penalty.

Wasn't mysterious at all. DCI assessed the penalty on the field because that's what they thought was right at the time. After time to discuss as a group, it was determined that the penalty was not, in fact, warranted. It was reversed and DCI issued a statement stating basically this and apologizing for the the entire incident and confusion.

Rest of your post I agree with ...