Hopblog thoughts on "Hash-gate"

[drumcat]

you mis understood my meaning of pushing it forward. I should have re-worded it better. I meant pushing the activity forward attitude wise, we have too many people bashing corps and its just not right, regardless if what they do is not what you want.

and also its not whining, simply I'm just telling people that there are much better ways to go about bashing a corps, or its director or anything for that matter. some of this is almost childish

"its different RUN!!!!" its just kind of lame, I just think that everyone should just let everyone do their thing, if you don't like it, go get a hot dog during their performance.

P.S as in fed up, I meant with the bashers, not the cadets. That also should have been worded differently.

A few things I couldn't read your mind about, but I think we're cool. No worries.

[Kyle B]

Cadets 2007 is easily more visually demanding than any show in the history of DCA. I'm not trying to contribute to the fight, but if top senior corps are your frame of reference for what is and is not dangerous on the field with a performing drum corps, you need a new one. I've seen one snare fall and take down the rest of the line in 2 seconds flat, I've seen bass drum shells covered in blood, I've seen horns smashed beyond repair, front teeth knocked out. I'm sure many of you have seen those things too. When you're doing what those guys are doing visually, you don't just suck it up and stop whining when you can't see the lines on the field.

For the love of CHRIST!

NO ONE is saying that DCA corps have a show near the Cadets, or any of the high finalists. You would have to be an idiot to say that. You find me a post that says that and I'll buy you a hot dog.

What I have said and some others, is that we DO move around a helluva lot more then people think, especially those people who have never seen a full DCA corps show. I for one am sick of this "well, it's just old people drinking and making an idiot out of themselves on the field."

Here's $1, please buy a clue. And I don't mean the kind with Professor Plum either.

[audiodb]

I have to admit though the differing standards that exist in DCI vs DCA commentary is perplexing. A few Kilties and other corps members were painted as "whiners" for being upset the lines had almost completely disappeared at prelims in Rochester last year.

No such characterization apparently when Hopkins pulls his corps completely off the field to demand lines be repainted.

Well, perhaps if the Cadets had performed on the hash-less field, and then complained about it on DCP after the fact for the ensuing month, they'd be characterized as "whiners" too. Same standard would apply to Cavaliers, PR, Bluecoats, Crown, SCV and BK, who did perform on the hash-less field....but I don't see anyone from those corps complaining about it after the fact.

[byline]

Quote 1: "I did not pull the corps ... I never threatened to pull the corps"

Quote 2: "... I was simply clearing so the painting could occur, ... I should have waited for DCI to act."

Quote 3: "When the corps was clear and I was walking forward to find DCI officials ..."

Quote 4: "Indeed, it was GEORGE HOPKINS, who pulled the corps" (emphasis in original)

I did catch that discrepancy. I think what he probably meant to say was that he wasn't going around threatening to pull his corps -- akin to taking his ball home in a huff -- if DCI didn't do something about the field. He pulled his corps off the field so that the hash marks could be repainted. But, yes, if that's what he meant, then he should have written that he wasn't going around making threats, just took the action he felt was needed at that moment.

I do appreciate his explanation because at least it clears up a few misconceptions.

[audiodb]

My 2 cents, since this debate still rages on....

I find myself more forgiving of Hopkins' actions than Hopkins himself is. Yes, it would have been better if he noticed the missing hashes earlier, but I don't expect every corps director to be inspecting the field markings five minutes in advance of their performance, given everything else they've got going on.

I'm not sold on the "safety" issue, but for me it's moot. If DCI promised hash marks would be repainted at each break, and that wasn't done, any corps has the right to request that issue be rectified. They don't need to play the "safety" card for justification, IMO.

Now, this DCA-bashing is just as ludicrous as the Hopkins-bashing. I marched in a DCA corps back in the stone-age (1980s), and we were taught to use all the standard field markings as guides to locate sets. Drills back then (at least in my corps) were sufficiently fast and complex so that the absence of those field markings would cause challenges similar to what junior corps would face in the same conditions. Of course, the demand of a DCA drill isn't as frequent or continuous as that of a DCI championship contender - but there are demanding drill sequences in DCA shows.

[LAMystreaux]

Thats a bit dramatic dont you think? That you think had the hashes not been repainted kids would be falling left and right? Anyway, kids do fall down and have yet to read anyone blaming the corps director for it.

I have to admit though the differing standards that exist in DCI vs DCA commentary is perplexing. A few Kilties and other corps members were painted as "whiners" for being upset the lines had almost completely disappeared at prelims in Rochester last year.

No such characterization apparently when Hopkins pulls his corps completely off the field to demand lines be repainted.

Actually, not dramatic at all, and I think you know that. Some of you will find something to criticize and hate him for regardless of what happens. It's silly to see you claim otherwise based on other things you have said.

. . .and again, why keep bringing up DCA? It has nothing to do with this discussion, and its a different world. Marching a DCA show without hashes and marching a Cadets show without hashes (especially this one) really is an unfair comparison.

[LAMystreaux]

My 2 cents, since this debate still rages on....

I find myself more forgiving of Hopkins' actions than Hopkins himself is. Yes, it would have been better if he noticed the missing hashes earlier, but I don't expect every corps director to be inspecting the field markings five minutes in advance of their performance, given everything else they've got going on.

I'm not sold on the "safety" issue, but for me it's moot. If DCI promised hash marks would be repainted at each break, and that wasn't done, any corps has the right to request that issue be rectified. They don't need to play the "safety" card for justification, IMO.

Now, this DCA-bashing is just as ludicrous as the Hopkins-bashing. I marched in a DCA corps back in the stone-age (1980s), and we were taught to use all the standard field markings as guides to locate sets. Drills back then (at least in my corps) were sufficiently fast and complex so that the absence of those field markings would cause challenges similar to what junior corps would face in the same conditions. Of course, the demand of a DCA drill isn't as frequent or continuous as that of a DCI championship contender - but there are demanding drill sequences in DCA shows.

Who here has bashed DCA? It is quite a fair and accurate statement to say the levels of difficulty in the shows are quite different. That is a fact, not a "bash". And, the people bringing it up are those on the DCA side of the issue.

[audiodb]

It is quite a fair and accurate statement to say the levels of difficulty in the shows are quite different.

Not to the degree that would render field markings irrelevant.

And, the people bringing it up are those on the DCA side of the issue.

DCI and DCA are not mutually exclusive, and the people bringing it up have marched in both DCI and DCA, so I don't see this "DCA side" you speak of.

[MikeD]

Some people here don't believe that narration = forward. Fed up or not, amplified human voice is still relatively new, relatively used sparingly (by total corps numbers), and is still controversial because it's not judged in an officially dileniated category despite being a major impact to a show.

Since it is part of the musical presentation it is judged like any other component of the show in Music Ensemble and Music Effect. it doesn't need any 'special category'.

[MikeD]

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QUOTE(Kyle B @ Aug 16 2007, 08:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For the love of CHRIST!

NO ONE is saying that DCA corps have a show near the Cadets, or any of the high finalists. You would have to be an idiot to say that. You find me a post that says that and I'll buy you a hot dog.

Kyle,

The implication is left by some of the DCA folks who come and post that because they don't need hashes why should The Cadets.

I totally agree that some of the DCA corps are doing GREAT shows these days...and very demanding visually and musically...two of my faves have been Bush and the Buccs the past few years.