What does Phantom Regiment have to do to win?

[ssorrell]

What does Regiment need to do to win?

Spartacus

^_^

[rmurrey74]

There were no Native Americans on the field... Both the guard uniforms were birds.

They looked like Native Americans to me. Maybe they were supposed to be birds, but it wasn't clear.

[PRPhan4ever]

They looked like Native Americans to me. Maybe they were supposed to be birds, but it wasn't clear.

My point exactly -- if the audience/viewers weren't sure, than I can bet the lotto neither did all the judges when viewing them!

[jwillis35]

Well, to the person who mentioned all the changes in their shows from the beginning of tour to the end I say you are right on.

I think their August versions of their shows have been magnificent, especially in recent years because we are talking about the NOW. 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, and now 2007 are all amazing shows. I listen to 03 all the time, and 05 was one of my favorite shows ever. 06 definitely came close to winning, and I would have put them in the winner's circle that night.

But for Phantom they always seem to start slowly. They are usually 2 to 3 points behind the competition either at the beginning of the season, or after just a few weeks, and then they find themselves trying to pull every trick out of the hat to catch up. Some of this is fine, especially when dealing with GE, but some of it can help or harm a corps when it comes to the visual design. If you are constantly re-writing and tweaking the visual, re-teaching it because it was not working appropriately in the first place, and if you have to do this all summer it eventually takes away from time spent perfecting other areas of the corps' performance.

Of course, this is not a unique problem to Phantom as all corps deal with this. It comes down to how much and how do you fix the problem.

When I honestly and objectively assess other corps (without any personal bias), especially the top 3, I get better perspective on why they are successful.

Take the Cadets this year. OK, some liked the narration, some did not, but let's look at the other aspects. How much did their show really change this year? Some might say a lot, but I would bet the narration changed more than did the overall show. The musical charts that I heard from spring training and from their first show in Annapolis were largely what they presented at finals. The tag ending was slightly altered, and the ending of the second production was changed. Otherwise, very few musical changes, and that = more time to clean and perfect. As for visual, they took out the opening set of drill (with the Appalachian Spring segment), they changed the drill at the end of no. 2 to go along with the new music, and they added a new ending mid-season. That was it. Again, more time to clean. More time for the guard to catch up, more time for drums to perfect the music and visual. Changing the narration over the course of the summer was nothing. That's just one person or so learning new lines. Changing the other stuff, and how much and how often you change, is paramount to success. There is only so much time.

In 2006 Phantom was right where they needed to be, and they were close in 05, but some years it just feels as though they have to change too many facets of their show, and in the end corps that clean incredibly well, like Cavaliers, BD, Cadets, will almost always beat those who do NOT clean.

We can argue all day long about the worthiness and true ability to judge captions like GE, or what constitutes true demand, etc., but at the heart of competitive drum corps is excellence, which is defined by mastering one's show. Take BD this year. They perhaps did not have the most demanding show, the best overall GE, or the most entertaining show, but they were the BEST at execution of their show, and only the Cadets came close in that caption. To me, this was a battle of the BIG 2, Cadets and BD. They were the only two who truly seemed to master all aspects of their shows, and I mean MASTER. They cleaned their shows, put the spit and polish on them, and nailed them at semis and finals. Normally I would have the Cavaliers in their, but this year they failed to master their music captions like they typically do. Visual was not real clean at finals, although I loved their GE and Guard.

JW

Edited September 7, 2007 by jwillis35

[newterak]

Well, to the person who mentioned all the changes in their shows from the beginning of tour to the end I say you are right on.

I think their August versions of their shows have been magnificent, especially in recent years because we are talking about the NOW. 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, and now 2007 are all amazing shows. I listen to 03 all the time, and 05 was one of my favorite shows ever. 06 definitely came close to winning, and I would have put them in the winner's circle that night.

But for Phantom they always seem to start slowly. They are usually 2 to 3 points behind the competition either at the beginning of the season, or after just a few weeks, and then they find themselves trying to pull every trick out of the hat to catch up. Some of this is fine, especially when dealing with GE, but some of it can help or harm a corps when it comes to the visual design. If you are constantly re-writing and tweaking the visual, re-teaching it because it was not working appropriately in the first place, and if you have to do this all summer it eventually takes away from time spent perfecting other areas of the corps' performance.

Of course, this is not a unique problem to Phantom as all corps deal with this. It comes down to how much and how do you fix the problem.

When I honestly and objectively assess other corps (without any personal bias), especially the top 3, I get better perspective on why they are successful.

Take the Cadets this year. OK, some liked the narration, some did not, but let's look at the other aspects. How much did their show really change this year? Some might say a lot, but I would bet the narration changed more than did the overall show. The musical charts that I heard from spring training and from their first show in Annapolis were largely what they presented at finals. The tag ending was slightly altered, and the ending of the second production was changed. Otherwise, very few musical changes, and that = more time to clean and perfect. As for visual, they took out the opening set of drill (with the Appalachian Spring segment), they changed the drill at the end of no. 2 to go along with the new music, and they added a new ending mid-season. That was it. Again, more time to clean. More time for the guard to catch up, more time for drums to perfect the music and visual. Changing the narration over the course of the summer was nothing. That's just one person or so learning new lines. Changing the other stuff, and how much and how often you change, is paramount to success. There is only so much time.

In 2006 Phantom was right where they needed to be, and they were close in 05, but some years it just feels as though they have to change too many facets of their show, and in the end corps that clean incredibly well, like Cavaliers, BD, Cadets, will almost always beat those who do NOT clean.

We can argue all day long about the worthiness and true ability to judge captions like GE, or what constitutes true demand, etc., but at the heart of competitive drum corps is excellence, which is defined by mastering one's show. Take BD this year. They perhaps did not have the most demanding show, the best overall GE, or the most entertaining show, but they were the BEST at execution of their show, and only the Cadets came close in that caption. To me, this was a battle of the BIG 2, Cadets and BD. They were the only two who truly seemed to master all aspects of their shows, and I mean MASTER. They cleaned their shows, put the spit and polish on them, and nailed them at semis and finals. Normally I would have the Cavaliers in their, but this year they failed to master their music captions like they typically do. Visual was not real clean at finals, although I loved their GE and Guard.

JW

yea... what he said

[sburstall]

We argue all day long about the worthiness and true ability to judge captions like GE, or what constitutes true demand, etc., but at the heart of competitive drum corps is excellence, which is defined by mastering one's show. Take BD this year. They perhaps did not have the most demanding show, the best overall GE, or the most entertaining show, but they were the BEST at execution of their show, and only the Cadets came close in that caption. To me, this was a battle of the BIG 2, Cadets and BD. They were the only two who truly seemed to master all aspects of their shows, and I mean MASTER. They cleaned their shows, put the spit and polish on them, and nailed them at semis and finals. Normally I would have the Cavaliers in their, but this year they failed to master their music captions like they typically do. Visual was not real clean at finals, although I loved their GE and Guard.

JW

I agree here. From the 20+ years of watching them (as a fan) their Achille's heal has alwasy been the cleanliness of their marching. The brass, percussion and guard have always been in the running at one point or another. I think Nikk could say more about this during his time (or any other PR alum for that matter). Whereas the other winning corps have had a consistant marching staff it seems PR changes them to often and never get the best out of them. Even professional sports can be an example. Most of the good coaches usually take a few season to get to the point of best from their team. You deny that and the team will not do well.

[festive]

The visual design definitely needs to pop more. I personally felt that the guard unis didn't convey the "bird" thing as much as they could have. They should have consulted an ornithologist for how to dress the guard...there are so many things they could have done with it that might have been more effective than the brown. Regiment's thing is color against the white unis as a sort of backdrop, or at least it was. But the color didn't really happen as much as it could have. it didn't set the eyes on fire, and when you are talking about birds, there's all sorts of ways to convey brightness and color and iridescence and all that stuff.

As for their marching technique, I think they did about as well with what they were given as any corps could have. that would include the three corps in front of them. Might have even done better with it given the strength of their brass line, in particular, and their ability to handle the music while "flocking about". since I've not seen other corps attempt this show, unfortunately, I'm not really apt to say they could have done "better" with it. The product, visually, may well have held them back. Musically, they were right there at the top with the devs (2nd) and that's where they deserved to be.

Anything else is just silly...music program needs to stay EXACTLY where it is. visually, I am still looking for them to knock the corps free from the criticism which, justified or not, has become something of a self-fulfilling image among fans and then the corps itself. even if they were to have marched that program "expertly," I don't know that the judging community would have rewarded them for it with "1st place." There are a lot of other variables that are playing into it--most notably that we are comparing apples to oranges, and if you like apples better, I can't make you take an orange.

[Phantombari1]

I think we are on the right track. I spoke with Dr. Dan to get his assessment while they were in Phoenix. His comment about their progression shows an area to focus on. He said, " I don't know why we always get to the end of the season and play catch up, but that's what we do."

I have always held the view that Phantoms Goal should be to put themselves in a position to win by Allentown or San Antonio. Then spend the rest of the summer cleaning for finals. With minimal changes/Tags.

If we focus on the begining of the year what cost them the most points? If I'm a betting man I would guess, the Drill and Guard.

So for this year if I'm leading the team I would set Scoring and Caption goals and devote every ounce of energy to hitting them from day one.

They need to raise the bar this year and speed up the process.

My Goals:

Short Term: Top 3 first week

Mid Range: Top 3 Allen Town

Late Season Top 2 San Antonio

Quarter, semis, finals #1

BOTTOM LINE THEY NEED TO HAVE A TOP 3 VISUAL PROGRAM THE ENTIRE SEASON

Edited September 7, 2007 by Phantombari1

[Rusty]

Honk-honk! I think most of you know that if you cut me I bleed Phantom Regiment. I was thinking this morning, though. What does this organization just not get when three corps have, now, what? 26 championships? And PR only one with a nasty blue mark running down the side of the trophy? (just kidding, BD honks!)

Please be nice, but I'd be interested to hear what others think Phantom is missing.

Yeah, yeah--"Play to the audience and get the fans on their feet (phans?)," and all that. Jewelry might be a nice thing for such an innovator and entertainer as this organization.

While the shows since 2002 have varied a bit for me in terms of overall enjoyment ('04-'05 didn't do a whole lot for me), I'm still just floored by 2006 and 2007. I got the Pasadena quarterfinals APDs for BD and Phantom, and while I enjoy "Winged Victory," I can't stop listening to "On Air."

Overall, I think Phantom just needs to stay the course. Many, if not most, of the pieces related to staffing are in place, especially in the form of Rennick and Sheridan. At this point, I think it's more a question of refinement than some sort of massive overhaul. At the risk of starting a flame war, here's one potential tweak: It seems Phantom goes out of its way to field the most difficult show in the activity every year. It seems to me that the difficulty in the drill, particularly in terms of step size in the horn line, has grown to the point that it's hindering other aspects of the show. (Listen to the quarterfinals APD, and you'll hear a lot of feet in the closer.) For the sake of a better overall balance in the various show components, is it time for Phantom to tone down the drill just a bit for the sake of cleaner visuals and sound?

[Tony Flores]

Musically Regiment is on the top of the food chan and are scoring well. The major issue in the progression of Regiment is the visual program...as well as the music and music performance have taken off in the past 5 years the visual component has suffered. I have noticed that the guard program has bee soooo much better year after ear and I am sure that is due to Adam Sage and the witer program. Now the drill and a cleaner, more precise technique must be taught and implemented. Otherwise, they will be driven by music and will be held back by the shortcomings of a lagging visual program