Why no mention/Important New Rule Change Proposal

[Blueemrld8]

I agree with all this ... esp the WebEx idea if they're going to go to quarterly meetings.

It's true that ALL the directors need to take this responsiblity more seriously or it's all just a moot point anyway. Maybe these subcommitees that I've talked about earlier would push the board members to participate. Or corps need to give their seat to someone other than the directors -- that is, someone who gives a ......

Maybe this proposal will be just what they need to get thier butts in gear.

[Liam]

Maybe this proposal will be just what they need to get thier butts in gear.

Heh, maybe

Let's hope so anyway -- it'd be nice if something positive came out of all this!!!!

[RichCranford82]

drum corps is a way of life. marching band is an extracurricular activity -- one of many that compete for money. competitive marching band serves its purpose. drum corps serves its purpose. the purposes are different.

drum corps is slowly, and rightly, changing its product in order to better provide it to participants as well as consumers. this market is growing.

Which market is growing? The market for summer marching bands? You seem to say that while Drum Corps serves a purpose that is different than marching bands, this not-so-eventual transformation to just that is the right way to go? And how exactly do these changes in product better provide for either it's participants or consumers? Change it all you want, your consumers will continue to be a majority of friends and families of the marching members, with fewer and fewer "enthusiasts" who can associate with wholesale changes to a product that they loved in some part because of the differences to marching band. I do agree that the vast majority of current members are from marching band and if that's truly the case I have to wonder how many of them march because it is different than marching band, or how many think how great it would be to have "anything goes". If this passes I really can see DCA being bigger than DCI in the not so distant future, and while that may sound like a stretch, I can recall many shows with both junior and senior Corps doing pretty well in the past. I'd go. As long as it's Drum Corps

[whitedawn]

Which market is growing?

DCI's future participants and patrons are band kids. the "legacy fan" market (that is, people who are die-hard fans of drum corps as it was prior to about 1993) is shrinking or stagnating.

You seem to say that while Drum Corps serves a purpose that is different than marching bands, this not-so-eventual transformation to just that is the right way to go?

yeah. i think it is. eventually, the products need to match, and the draw will come from the gaping chasm between performance qualities. band kids don't want to participate in "old-school" drum corps -- they want to do what they do at a much higher level. (this is based ONLY on my observations and interactions with band kids.)

And how exactly do these changes in product better provide for either it's participants or consumers?

there will be participants in the first place.

Change it all you want, your consumers will continue to be a majority of friends and families of the marching members, with fewer and fewer "enthusiasts" who can associate with wholesale changes to a product that they loved in some part because of the differences to marching band.

who are these "enthusiasts?" i think that the number posited on this board drastically overestimates the contribution of these "enthusiasts."

If this passes I really can see DCA being bigger than DCI in the not so distant future, and while that may sound like a stretch, I can recall many shows with both junior and senior Corps doing pretty well in the past.

DCA bigger than DCI? why's that? band kids don't care what the rules of drum corps are, just like they don't care what the rules of band are. they want to march in the cavaliers, regardless of what the cavaliers do.

[Sideways]

Am I the only one that is thinking that poem from the Lord of the Rings that describes the power of the One Ring...

"Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,"

more evidence that hoppy is indeed the dark lord?

Just more ammo for the dcp conspiracy buffs.

[madscout96]

i wouldn't say "on the brink of death" but i can't think of a single non-profit that isn't one or two bad years from disappearing. they have the unique charge of anticipating where the market will go. there is no luxury of trying something and waiting for it to fail. that would mean certain disaster.

Are the Boy Scouts or the Girl Scouts non-profit?

the number of events is irrelevant. there are SO many more kids that participate in competitive band (BOA + USSBA + FMBC + TOB + etc.) than there are that compete in DCI. each band kid has parents, grandparents, band directors, and other people who they bring to the market. this market consists of potential (1) participants in drum corps, and (2) consumers of drum corps.

Maybe they're in competitive band because that's what their high school band does. They're in a class for credit. It's WAY easier for a kid to be in his/her HS band than it is for them to march drum corps. The number of kids participating in each activity isn't relevant this way because they the difference in commitment level is way too different.

most likely because it is difficult to be a "fan" of a high school band given the inconsistency of high school bands from year to year. many bands go to Nationals once every four years or less. many bands are not consistently good. instructional staff turnover is large. further, band isn't designed to be a national attraction. that's why bands don't tour.

Uhh, no, bands don't tour because their members would miss Algebra class if they did.

[audiodb]

God help me, that doesn't sound like entirely such a bad idea. It would emphasize development at all three levels (technical, life skills, entertainment) and allow for a rich diversity of performing units at a particular performance.

Look again - there are five levels of stratification in that description.

DCI already has a less-than-stellar record with stratification. Why would more stratification be a good thing?

By the way, directors of corps at all levels apparently agreed that less stratification was the way to go, as the corps formerly known as division II/III voted to become one "open-class" for 2008, and the idea was approved by the division I BOD.

[MikeD]

Why can't a board of all member corps make the decisions that pertain to all? Why exclude anyone? Why create an exclusionary process thus giving ammuniton to conspiracy theories and the like?

Is the old system broken? Like my grandpa always used to say..."if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Although there are parts of the DCI structure that might need some tweaking, this move certainly isn't one of them.

According to the proposal the system doesn't work, hence the proposal. That may or may not be true, but I guess we'll see what the rest of the BOD thinks pretty soon. If a majority thinks this a good idea, as surprising as that might seem, it would indicate to me that the proposal was a good idea.

[audiodb]

i wouldn't say "on the brink of death" but i can't think of a single non-profit that isn't one or two bad years from disappearing. they have the unique charge of anticipating where the market will go. there is no luxury of trying something and waiting for it to fail. that would mean certain disaster.

You know, I actually agree with that sentiment. I've pointed it out numerous times, because that is exactly what the rule change proposals of George Hopkins repeatedly implore us to do - give amps a try, give electronics a try, give saxophones a try....as if we have the luxury of failing, and the ability to roll back the change.

market (my usage): the group of people to whom DCI is selling its product in the areas of (1) participation, and (2) patronage.

Well, your arguments are airtight when you get to redefine all the terms. At least patronage is part of the equation....

well, first, competitive marching band is MUCH larger than "just" BOA. this comparison is disingenuous.

Hey, it was your comparison.

the number of events is irrelevant.

No, it is very relevant. DCI needs events to generate the revenue to support the touring habits of their corps. A 16-event summer tour won't generate the funds to keep corps on the road all summer. DCI generates over 300,000 event ticket sales per year, from which the appearance fees and share pay for member corps is derived. BOA can only claim a fraction of that sales number.

there are SO many more kids that participate in competitive band (BOA + USSBA + FMBC + TOB + etc.) than there are that compete in DCI. each band kid has parents, grandparents, band directors, and other people who they bring to the market.

Oh, I am aware of that. I am also aware that there are lots of empty seats at band shows. What I have observed is that:

- there is virtually no fan base. Participants and their immediate family generally stop attending after their participation is over. Long-term fans, whether alumni or not, are rare.

- Family generally attend shows within a half-hour's drive of home. When travel radius extends beyond that, most of the family audience disappears. (I've observed this in drum corps as well as marching band.)

Without the nine-figure annual tax subsidy on which these programs are based, scholastic marching band competition would not exist.

many bands are not consistently good. instructional staff turnover is large.

That's odd - from what I have observed, the better bands tend to have consistent quality in their programs....and I thought that was because the full-time director positions of HS band programs saw less frequent turnover than drum corps staff.

further, band isn't designed to be a national attraction. that's why bands don't tour.

And drum corps do tour. Difficult to say that those two operating models can be comparable.

they aren't comparable because there is no way to compare them.

Then I guess we agree there.

because all the good kids joined drum corps?

And the "bad kids" went to summer marching band? Don't think so. The kids who joined summer marching bands were not "bad kids".

drum corps is slowly, and rightly, changing its product in order to better provide it to participants as well as consumers. this market is growing.

I'm afraid that's not accurate....that, in fact, drum corps is changing to suit this subset of participants only, with insufficient regard to the consumers (fans) that $upport it. The participant "market" may be growing, but the uptrends in fan numbers earlier this decade have stalled in the past 2-3 years, as far as I can tell.

[MikeD]

I've been wondering, if this does pass, what would be the backlash? Would there be any?

Could the rest of the corps decide to field their own circuit?

If fans are really that upset, would they sit out the season and not give DCI any of the $$$? I would think turning the cashflow off as some sort of protest would really make them think long and hard about what was taking place. But I doubt organizing a boycott that massive could be accomplished.

I've been trying to think what recourse this could have if it does pass, and there is a possibility that there may not be any negative impact.

The makeup of the DCI BOD is a pretty nebulous thing to the huge portion of the audience that just goes to shows because they like what they see and hear. I doubt you could get much of a fan protest movement over that.