DCA is "filling a void" left by DCI's Super Corps Model

[JimF-LowBari]

2. It's not a myth. I can bring you ample examples to where the corps who are announced to perform at a show dictate to a degree the advanced ticket sales. I was involved for many years with PRs Show of Shows. We wanted Madison, Cavies, and Kilties, because they had enough local fans to push advanced sales. Also, if there was a chance to get a Cadets, SCV or Devils, we'd jump at the chance as these corps would also bring more fans out to the show.

No argument that bringing in a big gun brings out the crowd. Especially when the corps is from another part of the country (BD at a local PA show was huge here). Have no problem with doing that but disagree that a show has to have all big corps at it. Didn't see that in your post but some people seem to feel that having a less than big corps or Open Class would hurt sales.

[audiodb]

It's not a myth. I can bring you ample examples to where the corps who are announced to perform at a show dictate to a degree the advanced ticket sales. I was involved for many years with PRs Show of Shows. We wanted Madison, Cavies, and Kilties, because they had enough local fans to push advanced sales. Also, if there was a chance to get a Cadets, SCV or Devils, we'd jump at the chance as these corps would also bring more fans out to the show.

We always saw fewer advanced sales if the second bill (besides PR) wasn't one of these corps. Rockford rarely got to see corps outside the Midwest so, we saw a real bump if the Cadets, SCV, or Devils were on the bill.

I guess the distinction I was drawing did not come across to you. Let me phrase it this way, building on your example.

You cite Cadets, BD and SCV because they have been top-7 corps pretty much every year. My point is that "the draw" is not Cadets, BD or SCV, but rather, whoever is on top at the moment. If, hypothetically, the 2008 contest results are the exact opposite of 2007, and Cadets, BD and SCV are battling each other for that last semifinals spot, "the draw" will be whoever replaced them in the top spots.

That drawing power doesn't belong to any specific corps....it belongs to the top slots of a competitive league. Thus, the whole league is responsible for creating that drawing power.

[Tom Brace]

I saw a couple recordings of their show. I saw one where the Drums marched with the rest of the Corps and one where the drums were grounded on the sideline. (there is a story behind that) I thought both were good. I really liked the Soprano Soloist.

Wasted effort? No, I don't think so. Frontier Performing Arts has played a big part in putting Drum & Bugle Corps on the Map in the Central part of the U.S. Every time I look at what they are doing, it spurs me on to keep working on Prairie Sound.

They started with nothing but an idea in 2004. (Same time I was putting our idea together) I guess you have to think of it as our Hobby to get what we are doing. I remember seeing Minnesota Brass Back in 1985 and seeing a buch of people that were having fun but was not very impressed with their drill. Now they are one of the Power Houses of DCA. Take a look at the different DCA Corps via the net and you might get a better idea of who is out there, what the rivalries are, the background of the personalities and get a better appreciation of what the Senior/All Age thing is all about. It's not all about perfection to the inth degree but more about performing with like minded individuals and friendly competetion. You will also get to hear some real good Brass and Percussion Players.

Go to Brass Hysteria, sponsored by Frontier and you will see several New Corps like: Scream Machine, Austin Stars, Masquarade, High Country Brass, Cross Winds and Prairie Sound along with some bigger guns like Frontier and Gulf Coast Sound.

You will probably see different slants on Drum Corps. There will be simple and complex drills, G and Bb Brass, traditional in your face Drum Corps Music and maybe some lower key stuff. I know our music will unique and fun. Our drill will probably be on the simple side.

Keep Studying this subject of Senior/All Age Corps, you'll eventually understand why we do it.

What a great post explaining your passion for this.

I guess, with respect, I might point out what I'm beginning to see emerge in this thread...

It may be a perspective of participant versus audience.

I am clearly on the audience side of things. I pay money (usually between $500 - $600) each year to be an audience member...either in my living room or at a stadium around the country. I am looking for value most of all...it's why if I'm at finals week, I ALWAYS go to QuarterFinals and II/III Prelims (now Open Class Quarterfinals). In this way, I can see all the competing corps.

Same is true back in DCM days. I'd be there for the first corps on Saturday morning and stay through the seniors. Most of the time, I saw Friday night's competition and I always was there for Saturday night.

Here's my participant story...briefly. I auditioned (showed up in those days) because a friend of mine in our high school band was in Phantom Regiment in 1977. I grew up in Rockford and at age 8 saw my first show. Whan I actually was able to be in band with one of these "icons" I found out they weren't a great deal different than I except they could play with more stamina and volume. Also, this guys range was through the roof.

So he asked me if I wanted to "try out." Since I was from Rockford, and her had heard me play, he thought I could make the line if I just stuck it out. But, he said, it was tough. So I went on a Friday in December and worked out...marched some basics pretty well...(like learning to walk all over again) and was given a single rotor and piston horn. PR was going to be getting new 2 valves as I believe they were just passed, but I don't remember if anyone had one yet. I remember what I had in front of me. A DEG single piston, rotor valve, G bugle with chome missing to guide me where to put my hands.

I owned a Mt. Vernon Bach Strad ever since my 11th birthday. I had a Conn Director student horn for marching band. Owe, and if you haven't guessed it by reading my posts...I'm kind of a jerk.

So, after hating the horn and not knowing anyone but Chris (the guy from my band) and really he didn't spend much time with me being a tryout and he was a vet..I got the tough part figured out. I think my attitude had a great deal to do with the number of pushups I did that Friday night and Saturday.

On Saturday mid-afternoon, I called my parents and said this wasn't for me. I regret this decision to this day, but I didn't think twice at the time. I got a job and worked after school and all summer to save money for college. I got an opportunity to tour Europe with concert band chosen from students from all over the country after my senior year...so the trade off was ok for me.

So, and I said this would be short didn't I...I'm an audience member. My comments come from a pretty well informed audience member.

This activity can't just be about the participant. If shows are not entertaining or performance ready, the audience will know. And they will vote with their dollars. It seems to me that outside of the NE, DCA struggles more to maintain a consistent and growing audience. Once the corps grow more and develop more, their value for the audiences dollar will be better.

Just my short thoughts at the moment.

[Tom Brace]

I guess the distinction I was drawing did not come across to you. Let me phrase it this way, building on your example.

You cite Cadets, BD and SCV because they have been top-7 corps pretty much every year. My point is that "the draw" is not Cadets, BD or SCV, but rather, whoever is on top at the moment. If, hypothetically, the 2008 contest results are the exact opposite of 2007, and Cadets, BD and SCV are battling each other for that last semifinals spot, "the draw" will be whoever replaced them in the top spots.

That drawing power doesn't belong to any specific corps....it belongs to the top slots of a competitive league. Thus, the whole league is responsible for creating that drawing power.

Again, I think you and I disagree on this. Madison has a strong draw whether they are in 15th or 4th place. Just something about them. I would say that differently, Cavies might have that same appeal as would PR.

[Fran Haring]

good point, Fran.

But I'm with you on the "poor management" thing.

I agree...... no one sits in the DCI home office and conspires to break up a corps. No DCA official sits down and decides that a corps should go under. It comes down to management of a given corps. The well-managed corps survive, and in a number of cases, thrive. The poorly-managed ones.... well, they either struggle or are gone by now.

Fran

[Kyle B]

Here is my opinion as why it can be seen that DCA may not be attracting new audience members (who knows if that's the case or not.)

DCI Corps

No, DCI doesn't steal the audience or say don't go over there and see those old folks.

Instead, junior corps paint the all-age as old people just getting together occasionally, holding a horn and drinking/smoking with the other. In fact, I believe for the 1988? PBS broadcast that had a segment for DCA, it had just those images in there, and I don't think anyone was younger then 30 who was in it. Instructors practically even say it (I know, because I heard from more then 1 both years.) Prior to joining a corps, I had no clue what DCA was. Then after that first year, we had a girl in the line my age-out year who was from Bucs, and even I wondered what she was doing in a group that just meets to have fun and drinks. There are some corps that even go out and say that after marching junior corps, you could teach any DCA corps and that its pointless to march.

Another thing, I remember a certain Alumni corps that shall remain nameless performing at a DCI show. Afterwards, I remember seeing a bunch of them in uniform talking to us with beers in there hand. I didn't know the difference between Alumni and competing DCA corps, so I just gathered everyone was like that. It wasn't until my first rehearsal with DCA that the myth was wiped away.

If DCI instructors and corps stop giving DCA a bad name, then we can easily gain more audience members and participants in the process.

[MikeD]

Here is my opinion as why it can be seen that DCA may not be attracting new audience members (who knows if that's the case or not.)

A lot of good stuff there, Kyle...

I also think that for non-corps audience members, e.g. HS band kids...non-familiarity is an issue. DCI sends out all sorts of mailings to HSs...we have them taped up on the wall with the band I work with. The kids just know what DCI is; some went to 1/4-finals at the theater near me as well...just more opportunity to become familiar with what it is. In out case, as we are a USSBA band, we also get lots of Cadet-related information. YEA! did a great thing a couple of years ago on individual band DVD's of champs...they included both The Cadets Finals show and the Crossmen semis show. There is just so much mroe familiarity with DCI.

[Dale Bari]

This activity can't just be about the participant. If shows are not entertaining or performance ready, the audience will know. And they will vote with their dollars. It seems to me that outside of the NE, DCA struggles more to maintain a consistent and growing audience. Once the corps grow more and develop more, their value for the audiences dollar will be better.

I mostly agree with this assessment, but I will go one step further: DCA struggles more to maintain a consistent and growing audience - starting from scratch - nothing, zip, zero, nada. Its not like DCA has parachuted the Hawthorne Caballeros, Reading Bucs, or other bigger corps into the Midwest and West. The local groups have to build up from nothing. So, those shows are closer to "not entertaining or performance ready." Even in mid-July.

One thing I have learned in this thread is that just because someone is a fan of DCI, doesn't necessarily mean that they're immediately (note that word) accepting of drum corps in other forms. DCA corps face a high wall to scale when it comes to establishing themselves in the eyes of folks used to seeing DCI.

One other thing that has been pounded into any DCPer who spends more than a minute a day here is that kids who know of DCI want to do THAT and on the highest level possible - which naturally precludes the "weekend warrior"-style groups.

So, from both a participant POV and a performer POV, no DCA corps is getting an easy ride to respectability. Not saying that they should, because the road there is long and winding. Just that clearing the bar is harder for DCA corps on DCI turf - the bar isn't any higher, but the DCA corps' "legs" are shorter.

DCI had an easier time establishing a coast-to-coast presence - the pool of corps was deeper (and spread more evenly), the corps were able to tour, the environment of the time was more friendly.

But, as we've been discussing, DCA now has an opportunity to make inroads to some DCI fans and participants (not to replace DCI, but to add another flavor to the experience) who hadn't opened themselves to, or been presented with, the chance to watch before. And, while the early baby steps are halting and unsure, it can improve over time.

Maybe "void" is not exactly the right word, but there is certainly an area for DCA and DCI fans/performers/corps to get together that doesn't involve the DCI "super corps". In the thread about EnGarde switching to DCI from all-age, there was someone positing the opportunity for the West Coast sr corps to ally with the jr corps that won't tour after the "Super Corps" leave CA and put on some shows. Wouldn't that serve as a chance for the "non-touring" DCI corps to see what being in DCA could be like for them? I don't know about the chance that something like that will actually happen, but at least from a theoretical POV, it seems like that could meet some of the needs talked about in this thread.

One more thought: Tom focuses his attention on the spectator. I welcome that focus, because, in the threads from Jan and Feb about the rules changes, it seemed to me that DCI was putting its "growth" eggs into the potential member-basket, not the fan-basket. IOW, DCI was risking losing some current fans by betting on new members bringing new fans with them. Audiences always know what their time and money are truly worth, and they won't waste either on things that aren't worthy.

[KeithHall]

The thanks to spreading the "drum corps gospel" in DCA should go to those Floridians, Renegades in CA, Minnesota, Kilties, etc who travel every year and represent DCA in their areas.

[whitedawn]

i had no idea senior corps even existed until july 4 of my first year of junior corps.

we did some parade in massachusetts or jersey (maybe? not sure) and at the end a senior corps (no idea which one/if they still exist, etc.) did a standstill. it was the most god-awful thing i had ever heard in my life.

that was my first impression of senior corps.