Bloomington, we have a problem

[Ed Boxer]

Idea...Bring Championships to NYC

hold Open Class Championships at Hofstra U. in Uniondale on Long Island and hold World Class at Giants Stadium (Home of the Super Bowl Champs woo!!!) in East Rutherford NJ

More than enough hotel space, plenty of activities (Broadway shows, Mets, Yankees, museums, shopping, dining)

Its a gold mine

NOT -

1. - Terrible acoustics, especially on the second level, the back of the second level seating is open to concessions so you get tons of noise that cannot be silenced. Plus the place has a hideous echo. I swore off DCI shows at Giants stadium years ago.

2. - NYC in August is about as bad as Orlando - 90+ heat and 90+ humidity (I know, I live here. In fact I wore a t-shirt to work today that was soaked by the time I got here, then changed into a dress shirt).

3. - Where are you going to house the corps?? Motel 6??

[JimF-LowBari]

I doubt electronics will make/break corps finances.

I doubt amplification will make/break corps finances.

I doubt coast-to-coast touring will make/break corps finances.

I doubt rising fuel prices will make/break corps finances.

I doubt rising food prices will make/break corps finances.

I doubt bingo competition will make/break corps finances.

I doubt bingo hall smoking bans will make/break corps finances.

I doubt rising insurance costs will make/break corps finances.

I doubt larger judging panels will make/break corps finances.

I doubt decreasing ticket sales will make/break corps finances.

I doubt loss of show venues will make/break corps finances.

(\rhetoric)

Unfortunately, these things don't just happen one at a time. When a number of them occur simultaneously, something's gotta give. Which would you rather give up - electronics? Touring? Food? Or should we just stick to our current course, and give up another six world-class corps?

Always reminded of Josephs Wambaughs "Echos in the Darkness" book when I think of all the things hitting corps today. The prosecution had a case totally built on circumstantial evidence but he explained how to get a conviction that way. To paraphrase: Think of the jurys reasonible doubt level as water in a half full container. As a prosecutor you want to raise that level to overflow the container to get a conviction. Since you don't have a "smoking gun" each piece of (circumtantial) evidence is a like a pebble dropped in the container. Each pebble raises the water level a bit, so you have to keep dropping in "pebbles" (evidence) until the water overflows (IOW jury goes beyoond reasonible doubt and convicts).

In DC case, each "pebble" like listed above makes it a bit harder to afford to run a corps. After enough "pebbles" somethings got to give.

[DrumCorpsFan27]

Not all of the member corps voted for the rule change to allow electronics. Majority ruled, so the rest have to deal with that decision. We'll see how many corps give in to the temptation to add electronics, and of those, how many are donated instead of being purchased outright.

My guess is that many of these new toys will be donated. It's cheaper for a manufacturer to donate a few electronics than to advertise in a band publication, plus they get the corps "endorsement" by default this way.

Sure, they are donated to the top few corps, who are about the only ones who can reasonably afford them anyway. The rest have to squeeze their budgets to keep up with the Joneses when that money could be used for gas, or an emergency site for the championships. I'd like to hear Hopkins and Gibbs, et. al. speak to that.

Edited June 10, 2008 by DrumCorpsFan27

[DrumCorpsFan27]

On a serious note, would there be issues with this being a pro stadium? I'm just thinking back to DC in '00. Can someone refresh me on why we got booted from FedEx?

I don't recall the reason, but the issue was that DCI never got a signed contract before selling the tickets. Then they got booted and had no recourse.

[crfrey71]

With the new field configuration (the added sinkhole), I predict that Santa Clara Vanguard will win going away (literally). Why? Remember they always added those disappearing drills during Finals week, especially back in the 80's with Phantom of the opera? Well, with a sinkhole now, talk about some added GE for the corps disappearing into the sinkhole. That will be hard to top.

[GeorgiaGirl]

Forget this football stadium nonsense. Let's go play indoors! LOL!

Jerry Seinfeld's already booked, but he probably wouldn't mind a long weekend off, right?

Might have to adjust the show a little, but desperate times call for innovative solutions, right?

Edited June 10, 2008 by GeorgiaGirl

[IMcomguy]

Just another view into what really happened / is happening in Bloomington...

http://www.idsnews.com/news/images/pdf/pdf_1237.pdf

http://www.idsnews.com/news/multimedia/mul...x?file_id=12685

http://www2.indystar.com/autofocus/galleries/slides/2429/5

Edited June 10, 2008 by IMcomguy

[silvertrombone]

Always reminded of Josephs Wambaughs "Echos in the Darkness" book when I think of all the things hitting corps today. The prosecution had a case totally built on circumstantial evidence but he explained how to get a conviction that way. To paraphrase: Think of the jurys reasonible doubt level as water in a half full container. As a prosecutor you want to raise that level to overflow the container to get a conviction. Since you don't have a "smoking gun" each piece of (circumtantial) evidence is a like a pebble dropped in the container. Each pebble raises the water level a bit, so you have to keep dropping in "pebbles" (evidence) until the water overflows (IOW jury goes beyoond reasonible doubt and convicts).

In DC case, each "pebble" like listed above makes it a bit harder to afford to run a corps. After enough "pebbles" somethings got to give.

IIRC, that was the strategy in OJ's defense...albeit from the opposite side. Defense had NO case...they simply attacked each and every piece of evidence in a painstakingly slow, albeit perfectly coordinated strategy, and look at what happened.

And you're exactly right as far as corps (plural) are concerned. Think of how "back in the day" our activity has historically operated and tell me that individual corps will be able to change course quickly, choosing adequate alternative strategies to pursue, and (most importantly) KEEP changing as one after the other of those pebbles is dropped into the jar.

DC's and DCI have done a woefully pathetic job of adjusting. And as MY evidence, I refer to all those corps that have dropped by the wayside. Even DCI's use of, for example, the Internet, is somewhat wanting in terms of its effective deployment. You have a perfect vehicle to drive traffic (see also our blogs/chats contained herein--demand?)...USE it!

We suffer from a two-fold attack of ineffectiveness in this activity...overdeveloped desire to cling to the past (referring to 'the way we did it back when...'), and a strategically-lacking vision of what the activity could be in the future.

Double whammy whose results speak for themselves. In that "perfect storm" of conditions, the Indy/IU stadium thing is only a logical result of the existing problems existing top to bottom, left to right. The stadium is no more the problem now than it was last year. Like I've said several times, an organization that has done this 35 times should have the best file folder, "how-to" set of standard operating procedures of anyone anywhere except maybe the Super Bowl folks, who operate on a slightly larger budget.

[silvertrombone]

On a serious note, would there be issues with this being a pro stadium? I'm just thinking back to DC in '00. Can someone refresh me on why we got booted from FedEx?

Oh, yeah--2000...forgot about that one. Just one more example of my point. An organization that has done this almost as many times as the Super Bowl should have significantly better SOP and great successes than seem to be the case.

With all the Birmingham's, Orlando's, Jackson's, Indy's, Pasadena's (negative points), D.C.'s, etc...I mean, that's, like, 12 years of problems!! At some point you have to say, simply, that was a mis-statement.

The problem is not the stadium issues. The problem is not championships with dumb mistakes, problems and negative memories that literally almost KILLED the activity. Those are simply the result of a much more simply-stated problem.

Strategic leadership. Musicians leading a business. (blanket statement, I know...exceptions will always exist to this rule...no offense intended to all you 'exceptions')

[FlamMan]

Oh, yeah--2000...forgot about that one. Just one more example of my point. An organization that has done this almost as many times as the Super Bowl should have significantly better SOP and great successes than seem to be the case.

With all the Birmingham's, Orlando's, Jackson's, Indy's, Pasadena's (negative points), D.C.'s, etc...I mean, that's, like, 12 years of problems!! At some point you have to say, simply, that was a mis-statement.

The problem is not the stadium issues. The problem is not championships with dumb mistakes, problems and negative memories that literally almost KILLED the activity. Those are simply the result of a much more simply-stated problem.

Strategic leadership. Musicians leading a business. (blanket statement, I know...exceptions will always exist to this rule...no offense intended to all you 'exceptions')

Well said and right on the money!