Dale Bari Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 when they marched DCI was different than it was when the legacy fans of that era were marching. 1950: DC play on bugles, drums, carry flags, march on football field. 1960: DC play on bugles, drums, carry flags, march on football field. 1970: DC play on bugles, drums, carry flags, march on football field. 1980: DC play on bugles, drums, carry flags, march on football field. 1990: DC play on bugles, drums, carry flags, march on football field. 2000: DC play on bugles, drums, carry flags, march on football field. 2010: DC play on buglesbrass band instruments, drums, amps, synthesizers, carry flags, march on football field. Which one of these things is not like the other? You can argue about adding pits and valves, eliminating color-pres & starting lines, but that's all window-dressing compared to changing the fundamental equipment of drum corps. So, no, this is not like prior times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 1950: DC play on bugles, drums, carry flags, march on football field.1960: DC play on bugles, drums, carry flags, march on football field. 1970: DC play on bugles, drums, carry flags, march on football field. 1980: DC play on bugles, drums, carry flags, march on football field. 1990: DC play on bugles, drums, carry flags, march on football field. 2000: DC play on bugles, drums, carry flags, march on football field. 2010: DC play on buglesbrass band instruments, drums, amps, synthesizers, carry flags, march on football field. Which one of these things is not like the other? You can argue about adding pits and valves, eliminating color-pres & starting lines, but that's all window-dressing compared to changing the fundamental equipment of drum corps. So, no, this is not like prior times. Sorry, it is like prior times...IMO: 1950: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. 1960: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. 1970: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. 1980: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. 1990: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. 2000: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. 2010: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Bari Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) Sorry, it is like prior times...IMO:1950: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. 1960: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. 1970: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. 1980: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. 1990: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. 2000: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. 2010: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. You forgot something in the last line: electronics. And, that makes all the difference. And, if you're going to elide the difference between bugles and brass band instruments, then you've forgone any resort to adding valves as an argument in favor of any other change. If there was no difference between what corps played in prior decades and what bands played, why did DCI, over time, make their instruments look like the bands'? Edited June 20, 2008 by Dale Bari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusankusho Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) Jim, You're a real glutton for this, aren't you? Remember Gluttony is one of the original 7 sins. Snipped for brevity. I'll put Dale's post in the hat for "post of the year". You know what Dale - you are right. Mike and Hop got what they want so they're all playing happily together in the sandbox they made. I still have DCA to give me shows I can actually care about and not cringe. I have DCA to point to and show videos to friends who have never seen drum corps and not be embarrased when the cheese starts to flow. And I am, as you say, putting the time to better use. I'm now involved with a 12 year archaeological project here in Ontario. Something I have wanted to do since I was a kid. I'm also writing a second novel. There is life after DCI... It does make me a little sad though. Like you, I used to love it. Now I'm embarrased by what it has become, an amplified, Disneyfied singing and dancing extravaganza. My hope was to convince just enough people to close their wallets that DCI had to rethink the direction. Who knows if that will work or not? Only time will tell. Given the level of arrogance, I'm not holding my breath. If it does, I'll be back in the stands. Retirement is coming up in 6 years and the plan was to RV through the USA in the summer hitting the regionals etc. I'm sure we'll find something else to do. My daughter and her friend were also planning a similar road trip. When they learned of the rule changes, they cancelled. DCI is impervious (oblivious) to all this. Summer Band International lives! Edited June 20, 2008 by kusankusho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Sorry, it is like prior times...IMO:1950: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. 1960: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. 1970: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. 1980: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. 1990: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. 2000: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. 2010: DC play on brass instruments, percussion, carry flags and other equipment, march on football field. So which is it, Mike - like prior times, or constantly changing (as you usually claim)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Bari Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Mike and Hop got what they want.... Brings to mind the line, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!" I'll add another option: find something else to do. Sorry to be all fatalistic, but if this petition thing didn't work the second time, it isn't going to work a third time, unless a new angle is discovered. Now, maybe there is still something left unknown as of yet that will be a big enough lever to move the debate, but either there isn't or the "limited" minds here on DCP can't unearth it. The only other thing left is some unforeseen seismic event that makes having these toys unnecessary or a liability. And, good luck banking on THAT! I have railed against the "ratchet" of "progress", but I'm having a hard time denying both its existence and its effectiveness. The tide of history does flow in the MikeD direction, but then floating with the tide is the easy thing to do. Saying, "Change is the tradition," makes for a simple "principle" to defend (even though it is a patent absurdity). Some of us feel it necessary to try to make a stand, but I know of only one person who was even somewhat successful, "Standing athwart History, yelling, 'Stop!'" (William F. Buckley). As I said, the only options remaining are join 'em or do something else. The first confirms their opinion about themselves; the second confirms their opinion about us. Either way, they will be pleased, and it will have no effect on them that will please us. But, then being pleased by winning an argument is not the ultimate point. Enjoying what Life has to offer, that's more important, and like I said, family comes before drum corps, if the two conflict. So, while the argument rages on, I'll try to fit DCI into my schedule, but as they made little effort to accommodate me, I'll not feel obliged to accommodate them much. And probably, it'll work out. In the meantime, I'll remain a gadfly on these discussion because they are somewhat entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusankusho Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 As I said, the only options remaining are join 'em or do something else. The first confirms their opinion about themselves; the second confirms their opinion about us. Genkus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 So which is it, Mike - like prior times, or constantly changing (as you usually claim)? That is the point....the changes over time have not taken away anything of importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Bari Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 That is the point....the changes over time have not taken away anything of importance. ... but have added a whole lot of nonsense. (For examples, see the BD modulation issue (was it on purpose or not?) , the incessant "narration: YES!/NO!" controversy, is it a contra or a tuba (bugle or not)? questions, is changing the pitch of a note the same as amplifying it?, can DCI write rules that are clear and easy to follow?) All cans of worms that needn't've been opened. (As you have said, Mike, all DCI's changes have been optional.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMichael1230 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 electronics are totally cool and i know for a fact dci has gained more fans because of it. i talked to all my friends and they agree with me. we don't do it online because we have a social life. i'm the only one who is online because i'm the loser of the group. nevertheless we talk about it and i've even spoken to thousands of others who feel the same way. a dci executive told me they're making money because of it too which is so cool. i don't know why this is even an issue. my neighbor even agrees with me. electronics are just plain sweet. LOL Geoffrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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