Finals placement set on Day 1

[Lance]

I'm still trying to figure out the reasoning behind saying the Troopers won't make finals because they won't get high scores early in the season. That's silly.

Out of curiosity, which corps that didn't make finals last year should've, and why? Be specific with the scoring flaws that kept said corps from making finals.

[ShortAndFast]

Aren't you all getting tired of the same ol judging and the same ol judges?

I may be tired of the same corps winning each year, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the judging. Last summer I enjoyed SCV, Phantom, Crown and Bluecoats more than any of the top 3 corps. But I have no quibble with the judges' collective placement of those groups, nor, really, even many quibbles with the ranking in individual captions. At most I could make an argument that Corps X deserved to place a slot lower or higher in a particular caption.

The bottom line is there is no parity in DCI, like there is in some professional sports. The top 3 attract the best performers, raise the most money, and hire the most experienced staff. All have long-term consistent leadership and very strong organizations. It will be the drum corps story of the decade if Crown or Bluecoats can successfully build an organization and a team that can win a championship. It'll be pretty surprising if former champs SCV or Phantom pull it off - both are fine corps, but so far this decade, they've been serious contenders for exactly 1 championship between them (Phantom 2006).

So, like others have said on this thread, if you think the judges are getting it wrong, please tell us all the juicy details. Which corps? Which captions?

[xmenjeffb]

I can speak to the rise of the Colts.

1989--Big corps , but nothing really clicked .SO after season Greg knew he needed to make changes. He had a great business plan in place a strong fundamental organization and lacked the staff to pull the corps together on the field.

1990- Chuck Naffier comes back to corps and Greg Hires me in march to teach marching. Out of the kids that could return from 89 only 11 of 52 brass returned and 3 of 22 guard. Battery return was bigger.We had a rough year but kids had a great season in that they started to feel like a corps , play like a horn line and march like they might have a clue. Going into 91 we had a better than 80% in returning members to build on .

1991--We did have a big change in percussion , but continued to improve and while placement was still low the members grew in knowledge.We set up 92 with another high rate of return around 75 to 80% .Changed guard staff added more brass and visual staff that Chuck and i knew and or had worked with in the past. Colt Cadets were sending up young local talent.

1992 - Chuck explores more as an arranger and i take over design of show.Corps Could have been 18 to 21 but we were finally competeing well against other Div 1 corps. So we go into 93 planning, thinking, now we can actually make a run at semi finals.Many Florida wave guys from my past come on board to teach one was Dean Musson. Added Depth to visual staff. and strengthened percussion staff.Biggest grow was retention rate stayed high. Now many of those members from 90 and 91 are seasoned vets, older more mature and ready to compete.

1993- Making finals--the possibility came clear in Ypsi. Our score didnt climb so much but other corps in front us would get scored lower when head to head with us. Still going into semi finals we had not beat VK .So we all went knowing lay it out on the line as this could be the last one for a great year . Seemed poised to mark the highest finish of any Iowa corps at DCI even if we didnt make finals.

SO retention of members, building a great instructional team, great management like Greg and Floyd Stegall getting us down the road on time and keep us moving and repaired. Dean ,Brett, Ron , Slim , Darren, Ann Marie ,Leah ,Jed, Jerry , KT , Mike , cory, Beth and many more .Staff and members buying into a system , philosophy and each other . Incredible parent support at camps and on tour . All of it was needed to break into the top 12.

While most of us are not teaching corps now many of our students are .And it was about making the Colts a viable corps that could compete for many years at a level to be a finalist. 15 years later i would say that the path we paved has been a solid one. Building on family , members first and finding an identity for the corps .Hope that gives a little insight .

[rut-roh]

For you, yes.

I was as big a fan of the Knights from those years as the next guy, but you didn't deserve to make finals either year. Sorry. Some really great things in there, but also some GLARING flaws. Most notably the drumline and the marching IMO.

[MikeD]

So you're saying that we can't compare "marching music's major league" to a major league?

Not to a professional major league worth billions.

[GMichael1230]

I was as big a fan of the Knights from those years as the next guy, but you didn't deserve to make finals either year. Sorry. Some really great things in there, but also some GLARING flaws. Most notably the drumline and the marching IMO.

Haven't even read this whole thread but read this and I disagree. Kinghts marching and percussion in 83, the year I assume is being discussed, was far superior than Skyryders and marching better than Bridgemen.

Knights without question were screwed in 83 and deserved to make finals without a doubt in my mind.

Geoffrey

[rut-roh]

Haven't even read this whole thread but read this and I disagree. Kinghts marching and percussion in 83, the year I assume is being discussed, was far superior than Skyryders and marching better than Bridgemen.

Knights without question were screwed in 83 and deserved to make finals without a doubt in my mind.

This is also about 1982, which is why I mentioned percussion. They were simply not good. In 1983, like I said, there were some very good things there for the Knights and yet they still had some major flaws. So did the SkyRyders and Bridgemen. But both of those corps had strengths (brass for SkyRyders and percussion/GE for Bayonne) that were simply bigger strengths than anything the Knights had. In the end, that tipped the scales in their favor and that's why they deserved to get in and the Knights, IMO, did not. They couldn't overcome those weaknesses and balance it out to their strengths to the same degree as the others.

[RMelson]

Great comments and insight concerning the Colts....Greg Orwell is a special person and the Colt family is strong.

[MCPWayne2005]

One quick note: Once someone posted the major jumps from madison scouts and boston the story went from all 12 finalists being the same to the top 6 being the same.

And there is still no solid evidence suggesting a corps has been screwed becuase they are considered to not be as good as the top 6. In fact someone mentioned that the blue coats do not have a shot, well I beg to differ, I think they have a solid chance at getting top 6. whether or not that is true is yet to be seen.

We don't know if Blue Devils, Phantom, Cavies, or Cadets will win it all. I do agree it is safe to say that one of those 4 will take first place. I don't disagree with the fact that the 12 corps listed will probably be the 12 at finals either.

I can see that the 6 corps that are usually at the top every year are of a higher calibur. You can look at it two ways, one becuase those corps are at the top end of the circuit they draw in a lot more talent to auditions, a larger talent pool to choose from when making those final cuts. Two you can claim that it's becuase they are expected to be there.

I don't dismiss the fact that judging may be some what biased, but to say that a corps who opens in the 50's can't make a jump to be competitive at finals is ludicrus. For one bad show's happen. I have seen a lot stranger things than a drum corps decide that they are going to pull there stuff together and be a contender and there be a 10 point spread within a few days.

To some it all up, we might know which twelve will probably make it, but the only thing we can say about which place each one will take is that this group of 6 has a shot at first and this group of 6 has a shot at 7th and this group in the middle have a shot at being an upset.

Everyone who claims the judging system does not award corps that do well and deserve a spot, are not looking into the facts hard enough.

[MikeD]

Haven't even read this whole thread but read this and I disagree. Kinghts marching and percussion in 83, the year I assume is being discussed, was far superior than Skyryders and marching better than Bridgemen.

Knights without question were screwed in 83 and deserved to make finals without a doubt in my mind.

Geoffrey

But the Crossmen, Alliance and Troopers were all ahead of them at semis in 83, and usually were during the season at head-to-head shows....not always, but a lot of the time.

The Knights drumline was 19th...20th in execution. Again, looking back that year not all that out-of-line. The percussion gap between them and Xmen made it hard for them to outscore the Xmen in total. They hung with them in most captions, but Xmen were 9th in percussion vs Knights 19th...hard to overcome that large a spread.