Why do I keep hearing that the way to get new fans is to go more BOA?

[ApathyJones]

Hmmm. So you're probably talking about another "mom". I don't ever remember discussing narration in any post - defending it or condemning it - doesn't apply to the complaints I hear about my kid's corps. As to knowledge, I don't claim any beyond three years of rabidly following drum corps.

I do however, claim to have good taste and think my opinion is as valid as anyone else's.

As to saving the activity, there have been several studies over the last few years that compare "dying" churches and businesses to "thriving" churches or businesses, and THAT I do know something about. Those studies could be applied to any business or activity. As I said above, DCI's problem isn't the quality of the shows.

The problems may be that few people have even heard of this activity - and that the entertainment dollar of a family can be spent on any one of thousands of choices. Record companies, booksellers and movie theaters are trying to figure out why they don't have the market share that they had in decades past. It's because there are 1000s of ways to be entertained now.

The answer from those studies (about thriving biz and churches) is always to diversify and to innovate. And for drum corps, DCI is going to have to figure out what that means. Or not.

When I think of narration, I'm sorry, but I already tend to think "it's been done already". There will be innovations that will make narration seem mild and trite - and people on this board would hate -- that would involve going 3-D above the field (a la cheering formations and Cirque du Soleil), acrobatics, moving pit pieces, marching pit MIDI instruments (guitar, keys, etc.) giant floating props (a la parade), and choral music.

And no, I wasn't talking about you specifically ;) DCI needs to find a way to both get new fans (the ESPN broadcast was a good idea I thought) while at the same time making sure they do not lose the lifelong fans they have.

Having said this, I doubt the health DCI as an organization is really at the forefront of someone like GHop's mind as they can just say Oops! Narration killed Drum Corps, guess we can just start performing at BOA/YEA shows!

My point being, I have no problem with trying to get new fans, but not at the expense of your current fans.

[ApathyJones]

Not big in Colorado, and I overstated the TX thing - I've seen all the HS shows in the last four years in Colorado - 5 star and 4 star. So I've seen dozens and dozens of CO HS band shows - literally. But I've only seen my neice's HS show (two years), once each. No narration though.

Perhaps defining narration is symantics around here. Is any mic'd vocal sound a narration? Say is somebody went "plop, plop, plop" as in dripping water? I define it in screenwriter terms -- as in the Cadets, where someone is speaking throughout the show, or in a movie, where the narrator is catching up the story narrative or feelings or plotpoint. If there is the minor vocalization or sound effect that was mic'd -- I would not call that narration. For instance, in the BC show where they yelled "Freeze", that's not really "narrative", unless there were several sentences to tell the story adn introduce the characters. That Freeze was a sound effect. JMO

Yes, I guess I should have said "amped vocals" instead of narration...any spoken word or singing that is amped.

[ShortAndFast]

my (admittedly ignorant) guess is that they think a "real" writer isn't required, haven't asked for one, and so they are doing it all "in house".

Well, my guess is similar, although there have been some mentions on Hop's blog this year about script writers and acting coaches.

I'm prepared to believe that drama and drum corps could be done well together, but I haven't really seen the show that convinced me of that yet. By analogy, when the Cadets wanted to incorporate ballet elements in 1987, they went out and found themselves a fantastic ballet dancer. I'm surprised they haven't approached drama by seeking equivalently good talent, both on the creative and performance side of it.

[BlueKnightMom]

And no, I wasn't talking about you specifically ;) DCI needs to find a way to both get new fans (the ESPN broadcast was a good idea I thought) while at the same time making sure they do not lose the lifelong fans they have.

Having said this, I doubt the health DCI as an organization is really at the forefront of someone like GHop's mind as they can just say Oops! Narration killed Drum Corps, guess we can just start performing at BOA/YEA shows!

My point being, I have no problem with trying to get new fans, but not at the expense of your current fans.

Hmmm. Great minds and all that.

From one of my posts in the other thread..."the activity has a chance to really progress, but also MUST to do so without alienating some supporters, especially those who want to see drum corps hold-on to some traditions from Halcyon days of days gone by."

[jetman1287]

BOA is becoming a good model not because of narration and voice. In this decade it has the following that DCI lacks or has little of:

A) More variety of musical and visual themes than DCI.

B) No slotting whatsoever, truly any band can win any contest.

C) Lots of emphasis on the kids, whereas DCI seems to care (at least people want them to care) about alumni first.

A few more minor differences, but I think it's more than just narration and props.

[jetman1287]

Forgot to mention this in my previous post but your question asks how to get NEW fans, and quite simply, BOA is the largest pool of potential new fans DCI has. Corps aren't everywhere these days, bands are. It'd be very easy to draw from kids that are already interested in the activity.

[wolfgang]

I actually have seen quotes on this board that say exactly that and I will try to dig thru the posts to find them for you (last year I specifically remember multiple posts saying those exact words.)

still waiting....

Also, I don't really need to point out the obvious George Hopkins... (I don't know if he has ever literally uttered those words but I think what has happened in recent years is as close as you can get).

You must not be aware of the fact that George Hopkins is no BOA fan. In fact, you may not be aware that he/YEA run a large marching band organization called USSBA, which is a competitor to BOA. I will love to see a quote from Hopkins alluding to wanting DCI to be anything like BOA by name. Doesn't exist.

I think 99.9% of marching band shows are inherently goofy and uncool as well. I know many people enjoy both marching band and DCI, I however do not (even though I have been involved in both in a large capacity for a long time). If you look a the Blue Devils for instance they look professional, cool, and carry themselves in a way that just doesn't seem dorky. It is way easier to get non-bando people into liking that. Marching bands just don't exude that same sort of maturity and cool factor, and with the addition of goofy narration and stuff it makes it even less cool.

Hmm. Blue Devils are more mature than a high school band with awkward 14-year old freshmen? I would never have thought of that...

I have no idea what you mean by 99.9% of marching band shows being goofy and uncool. Again, the condescending tone of your posts is amazing, and almost everyone can see it except you.

Edited July 3, 2008 by wolfgang

[IntheMood]

I think this question assumes that the purpose of narration in a show is to "win" anyone or anything. Not that I am inside the mind of George Hopkins or any of the people who were behind the passing of the amplification rule, but I think that may have only been one of the many factors that came in to play when deciding to allow it to pass.

I think that allowing amps opened the possibilities for many new options and effects, and the spoken word is just one of those possibilities. It has been used with varying degrees of acceptance and abhorrence to this point but my guess is that in all cases the designers thought it was to further the design of the show. I don't think there was ever any conscious thought, "Yes, if I have a story line in this one, maybe I'll win all those wanna-be voice actors and attract them to our guard!"

Then again, if I were a theatre major who didn't get accepted into a program, I might think "acting" on a football field was better than nothing.

Please read the 2003 Amp prop. written by Mr. Hopkins. You know, the one where he slams the Legacy Fans of 75

[barigirl78]

Drum Corps is pretty obscure. (have to put on my flame suit now) I will tell you - only ONE person in my entire department of 36 people had ever even heard of drum corps. NOBODY in my family or my husband's family had every heard of Drum Corps. Then you explain it and they say, "You mean like marching band?" Ugh. Maybe it's big in certain cities or states, but most people have not heard of it.

I'm constantly surprised by how many people know about it. I recently was telling a friend about my support of the Crossmen. She didn't know much about drum corps, but was interested and wanted to know if there was a show she could go to. I told them about the Clifton show. They live in Jersey.

Suddenly, I got a call saying she has four other people who want to come with her. Because members of her husband's family are familiar with drum corps because they once attended many shows in the North Jersey area.

I will meet them in Clifton on Saturday, but I'm prepared to explain to them if they haven't seen a show in a long time that what they are about to see isn't as accessible as what they may remember.

I think that's one thing drum corps has lost. In its procession toward being a higher artform, it's lost some of the accessibility it once had.

I took a newbie to a show last year. He listens to classical music. His reaction was "I liked it better when I recognized the songs". Even he didn't recognize most of them.

It's nice that drum corps is playing to the judges and the "music major" staff, but those two groups have one thing in common: Neither pays for their admission to the show.

If they activity starts forgetting about the people who do pay, it will find itself in trouble. IMO.

[MikeD]

In any case, this isn't really the point of the post. You brought up Tarpon Springs. First of all, hated it for the same reason I hate all shows with amped vocals...because it is goofy and uncool.

I've only seen them on video...but no, they are far from "goofy and uncool"...IMO. You are certainly free to think what you wish however.

I also dislike it for an additional reason...I think 99.9% of marching band shows are inherently goofy and uncool as well. I know many people enjoy both marching band and DCI, I however do not (even though I have been involved in both in a large capacity for a long time).

Curious....why would you be involved with MB if you do not like it? There are MB that run the spectrum from amazingly good to "goofy and uncool"....given the tens of thousands of HS bands in the country (not all competing) of course there will be shows that cover just about everyting you can think of.

If you look a the Blue Devils for instance they look professional, cool, and carry themselves in a way that just doesn't seem dorky. It is way easier to get non-bando people into liking that. Marching bands just don't exude that same sort of maturity and cool factor,

Well, if you are talking competitive HS bands...the average age of a HS band member is what? Somewhere between 15 and 16? Most World class corps have an average of around 20. That makes a huge maturity difference, not including the single focus and drive...and rehearsal time...inherent in drum corps vs HS band.

and with the addition of goofy narration and stuff it makes it even less cool. Now, add that same goofy narration over the Blue Devils and the cool and maturity is drowned out by the comical narration, and now you have turned off both potential fans, AND current fans.

All narration is not goofy, so the above makes no sense. If you go in thinking that as a "given", then you will never appreciate a corps using narration well, as has been shown quite a few times since 2004. As for current fans, if a few spoken words wil turn them off, that's their problem, not the corps.