Would you really leave the activity

[octavia9299]

Once woodwinds are added to the activity I would agree with you 100% that the name "drum and bugle corps" has become name only. However, this is where we separate in what should be celebrated or explored. I don't believe people are sad about change or progress, but I do believe drum and bugle corps has a distinction that makes it what it is. You can have progress without changing the very essence of the activity you are talking about. I will fight for the essence of "drum and bugle corps". To me, it is unacceptable to think it can be completely obliterated in the name of creative growth.

That's fine, I respect your opinion. I respect your choices.

[bmroth1]

Maybe not - because DCP by and large draws folks with a pretty good education about drum corps. To me this argues well for the validity of the polls conducted here. Why poll someone who doesn't know anything about the activity and just makes an uninformed guess? Surely that factors into statistical analysis as well? I only did one year of stats at college so I'm not that literate on this from a mathematical point of view - just going on what seems to be common sense.

Good points, I agree...what I'm trying to say here is in our particular case it makes more sense to conduct a poll where people who are involved with our activity actually communicate about it. As opposed to say a general newspaper where running a poll like this wouldn't represent the people who normally are involved with the activity or could care less or know absolutely nothing about it.

Edited June 21, 2009 by bmroth1

[octavia9299]

Good points, However, I think what I'm trying to say here is in our particular case it makes more sense to conduct a poll where people who are involved with our activity actually communicate about it. As opposed to say a general newspaper where running a poll like this wouldn't represent the people who normally are involved with the activity or could care less or know absolutely nothing about it.

It's money in ticket sales and sponsorships that drive how far the "creative change party" can go, so a poll concentrating on people who communicate about it and are intellectual about it and vigorously debate it won't show which way the wind will blow. It might be an interesting study in ... internet people, or conservatives vs liberals or whatever, or people who do music for a living in some way vs. people who don't... and how the change vs not change lines up with those arbitrary distinctions I just came up with on the fly. But not really about the tensile boundaries of what the system can take as far as change.

[JimF-LowBari]

I agree with you. To me electronics was the last straw and I'm not attending any DCI shows this year. It is my first year not going to any shows since about 1980 and I'm finding it much easier than I expected. I'm enjoying planning other things to do over the summer rather than planning my free time around all the shows I used to go to. I will be going to DCA this year for the first time and can't wait. I hear it is a great weekend!

Hope you enjoy. My wife and I will both be there with some members of my corps. If you see anyone with a Hanover Lancers shirt or jacket have them point me out.

[bmroth1]

It's money in ticket sales and sponsorships that drive how far the "creative change party" can go, so a poll concentrating on people who communicate about it and are intellectual about it and vigorously debate it won't show which way the wind will blow. It might be an interesting study in ... internet people, or conservatives vs liberals or whatever, or people who do music for a living in some way vs. people who don't... and how the change vs not change lines up with those arbitrary distinctions I just came up with on the fly. But not really about the tensile boundaries of what the system can take as far as change.

Agreed that it is pushed by the all-mighty buck. However, my guess is (and this is a guess) that the people who participate here on DCP make up a very significant portion of DCI's revenue. Based on the fact that these are fans, members, parents, siblings, adjudicators, staff members, corps directors, you get my point.

[Elmo Blatch]

DCP isn't a representative sample.

How would you go about selecting a valid random sample?

I think it works like this: there are two forces checking and balancing each other -- the rules congress and the ticket buyers. The rules congress votes to expand creatively at a rate that the paying audience is willing to see. So far so good.

No, in fact, didn't DCI report a loss in revenue in 07 and 08? The expansion to ESPN2 and smaller early season judging panels are a direct result of this lost revenue. Surely, there must be some reason why fewer people are supporting DCI.

Probably no woodwinds in the near future, but there is a trajectory, and as long as those who make the rules keep tabs on what people are willing to pay to see, nothing bad will happen.

See above.

It matters how this poll is written, the one we're posting on. The two available responses assume that NO ONE is in favor of woodwinds ('No, I love this activity way too much to leave it'). That was my only choice for voting here. It's not how I really feel.

Ok, I can see this, but then again, if a Likert-type scale were used in the wording of the poll, we would have options like this:

1. Wouldn't leave. I love woodwinds and I would love to see the activity expand so that all kids can march.

2. Wouldn't leave. I don't love woodwinds, but I appreciate the creativity and new colors the sound would bring.

3. Would leave. I like woodwinds, but it would change drum corps.

4. Would leave. I don't like woodwinds and they don't belong in drum corps.

And you see, this too leaves out many other options. Simply put, this is a yes or no question. Regardless of how the question is worded, you must come off the fence and answer it one way or another--for or against. Not a single poll on DCP is conducted with real scientific basis. Like you alluded to earlier, if the sample is not truly randomly sampled, even with the best intentions you can not infer results from a poll.

I am happy with the direction of the activity, and the sound colors we're using and the state of the art currently.

It is good to have diverging opinions. It stimulates creativity.

Each era of this activity passes, and as it passes, how it was in (insert year here) will belong in a museum or university graduate student historical music recreation.

That is great that you feel that way! I agree--the history should be well-regarded, recorded, and heralded for all to remember. However, if drum corps becomes a glorified marching band, we will likely lose the majority of the fan base and current marching members. Why would a current marching member want to pay $2000 to march in a marching band that they can do for free at the local high school or university?

Those of you in favor of brass only, acoustic only: I am not saying your tastes and artistic choices are not valid. They are. So are mine. But this activity is moving in a direction, and as long as it continues to work, it's going to keep going.

Maybe one day we can have a DCI circuit comprised of 8 super corps (made from the old World Class corps) and 8-10 amateur corps (made from the old Open Class corps).

[spatula67]

I'll just throw all my support to DCA. We already have two great Marching Band circuits here in Indiana - ISSMA & BOA

we really don't need another......

[twillms73]

For the most part, I've already left the DCI side of the activity. The reason I fell in love with drum corps is because of the impact of the shows. Thanks to the change to band instruments, the addition of non-acoustic instruments, and frankly, show design, very few corps provide much impact for me. I've always loved the raw quality of drum corps. You could tell one corps from another by the distinctiveness of their sound. Now every corps sounds pretty much the same. I'm all for progress but it seems that DCI has lost it's way. It's become change for the sake of change. This is not a condemnation of the young adults performing. It's the designers and administration who, in my opinion, lost their way.

No, DCA will never be as clean or pretty as DCI. That's a product of practice time. But DCA is providing what drum corps should be. Brass and percussion being played and things being spun, all while marching. No pushing buttons. No turning a volume knob. Real human achievement, not technology.

Personally, I enjoy amplified singing and playing. Just not in drum corps. I'm also a fan of barbershop singing but, not if they added horns and drums.

I would support my daughter if she chose to march DCI. I would support her doing anything she wants to do. I would also remind her of what I thought drum corps is and let her make her own opinion.

Just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth. :)

[Lance]

I am a woodwind player, and I have some very specific reasons for not wanting to hear woodwinds in marching shows unless I absolutely have to. They differ greatly from brass instrument in order to get a good sound from the instrument outside.

A lot of time and effort put into reeds is essential to get a decent sound out of clarinets, saxophones, oboes, bassoons, etc. Being exposed to varying weather conditions ruins reeds very quickly, no matter how good the person making them and maintaining them is. Pads shrinking and inflating are also something that's impossible to avoid with variable weather, and they influence tuning very much.

Clarinet is my particular instrument, and I have some very specific problems with them on the field. The only way a corps could ever realistically march clarinets is to use composite/plastic ones, and those sound like garbage even if Stanly Drucker is playing them.

I realize the skill level of most performers who might march woodwinds in DCI would be higher than those marching BOA, but not enough to overcome the items I brought up in this post.

The big thing for me is that the issues I'm talking about with impedement of good sound for woodwinds on the move and outside are just not the same as they are for brass instruments.

For some brass players, marching instruments are just something they never care to see. It's the same for some woodwind players.

[JimF-LowBari]

Too many DCP posters going back to "their day" which is totally irrelevant. What DCI put out on the field pre-1985 is radically different than the change WW's would add to corps today.

Speaking as one who started 1974 (2 years after DCI) and ended competing 1985, I'll have to ask "How so?".

IMO, Major changes from 1972-1985 were:

Horns - piston/rotor to 2 valve configs, new mid-voices (altos?)

Drums - marching bells used by more corps, of course... da pit....

Guard - less march, more dance. less uniform worn, more dance outfits

Drill - asymetric, no elevator drills for the drum line

Music - going more to less known music.

Bottom line: 1972-1985 was still the sound of drums and horns.