kdaddy Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 How many new DCI fans did Kristy Spears create during the summer of 1997? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdaddy Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I agree with an earlier post that the mystery around the Hawthorne Muchachos prelims score of 1975 is definitely one of the biggest secrets in DCI......... So I've heard about the overage member issue with this corps. But what I don't understand is when it was found out? Your post suggests that they performed in prelims, then sometime after performance and tabulation, this overage issue was discovered? Or was it discovered ahead of time, the corps was allowed to perform, then appropriate action was taken? Also, was the corps "ratted out" by another corps? How did the overage issue come to light? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) Paul Milano chased down the Muchachos story a number of years ago here, talking to the actual players. His report as follows: Okay folks, we're getting closer . . .I have one piece of the puzzle left to fit in, and (if I can get that last piece), we'll have the full, accurate, end-of-story, account of the Muchachos disqualification. Until then, however, this is what I have learned as of today, through conversations with most of the principal parties involved. Don Warren, President of the Cavaliers, confirms that they did, in fact, file the protest claiming the Muchachos were marching overage members. They had what they felt was definitive proof on three members. The protest was filed with Don Pesceone and Gail Royer (?), the Executive Director and Chairman of the Board of DCI, respectively, prior to prelims. As per the rules (at least back then, anyway), a corps could not be disqualified for marching an overage member unless that overage member was seen exiting the field of competition. Thus, the Muchachos had to be allowed to march the show, and then the member(s) would have to be identified. All the corps had been warned that winter that DCI WOULD be cracking down on overage members that summer. Bob Briske, DCI Contest Director at prelims that year, confirmed that he received the formal protest prior to the contest and was prepared to request proof of age from the three members of Muchachos as soon as they exited the field of competition. He did just that, immediately asking the Muchachos Director to bring forward the three members in question (who had just exited the field). As soon as the first gentlemen was proven to be overage (and he was), the other two members were not pursued further, at that time. Later, DCI did a more thorough check of Muchachos "notarized" birth certificates and found 22 that had been notarized by the same individual, even though many of the members were from different states. By the end of DCI's overall review of Muchachos birth certificates, although they did not pursue formal proof, it was DCI's informal, but firm contention, that probably two dozen Muchachos may have been overage. Anyway, back to prelims . . . As soon as the first Muchacho member admitted to being overage, and the corps was thus immediately disqualified, Bob Briske went to the tabulators and collected the score sheets. They had added up the tics, per sheet, but had not yet come up with a full sub-total, or in other words a final score. Mr. Briske, not wanting any controversy about whether or not Muchachos may have "won," since he knew they were a contender, simply took the untabulated sheets, put them in an envelope, and handed them to Don Pesceone.... Bob Briske, the contest director of prelims that night, confirms that Don Pesceone brought the still untabulated scoresheets with him to the Hilton Hotel that night, and asked several of the assembled corps directors/DCI Board members what he should do with the sheets. They said since the Muchachos were disqualified, that they didn't technically "compete," so their score was therefore meaningless. They agreed that the sheets should be destroyed. That's what happened to them right then and there. Never tabulated. By anyone. To be fair, Don Angelica mentioned to a few people that the judges may have done a little informal crosschecking re: scores and come up with an approximate number, but even if they did, it'd only be an approximate number (and Angelica's recollection was that it was not a winning score). Was he correct in his recollection? Who knows, but it's possible. The corollary theory that it was actually the 1st place score, however, is a little harder to support, as Madison had just beaten Muchachos convincingly a few days before prelims, and if anything, Madison was stronger that last week of the season than at any point prior. BTW, for those interested, there's a guy on eBay selling a DVD of Hawthorne's '74 prelims show (yes it exists, though the video is badly degenerated) and of 8 minutes of Muchachos' 75 prelims show from a press box fixed cam (with an Elvis tune as ambient noise in the background). In addition, Kobold's tape of the 75 prelims show is widely available from music sharing sites. Edited July 2, 2009 by mobrien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Paul Milano chased down the Muchachos story a number of years ago here, talking to the actual players. His report as follows: Thanks for the memory jog. I always get 75 Muchachos and 77 Bridgemen confused. IIRC, Bridgemen obtained a court order to be allowed to perform but the DQ was upheld later (after Finals). Then you have '76 Crossmen who were DQed at a mid-season show but things got confusing about that one (it's in a thread somewhere can't remember the details). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 and almost 89 SCV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decompressed Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 THE FLORIDA WAVE!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piper Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 So I've heard about the overage member issue with this corps.But what I don't understand is when it was found out? Your post suggests that they performed in prelims, then sometime after performance and tabulation, this overage issue was discovered? Or was it discovered ahead of time, the corps was allowed to perform, then appropriate action was taken? Also, was the corps "ratted out" by another corps? How did the overage issue come to light? Believe me, there were a lot of east coast corps in 75' who knew about it at the time, but the "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" mentality prevailed. The Cavs really didn't "rat" on them, it's just that they were the only ones at the time who had the guts to call them on it. With the 77' Bridgemen it was the Phantom Regiment, but that was a bit of a different situation. Anyway, I remember 76' as being the first year that we were all required to submit our birth certificates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 someone actually commented it on one of their posts on facebook, not a cool thing to do.I think we're all still wondering who banishedbeyond is I think the banished info is out on facebook also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaraNYC Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 That wasn't finals only, tho....it made it's debut at a show in Bloomington (you can find it on YouTube if you lool...the crowd response was insane) Nope, the cross to cross was performed for the first time at the Lynn Mass show. I was in the audience and I flipped out. I was at the Bloomington show that year too, I'll have to look for that video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Nope, the cross to cross was performed for the first time at the Lynn Mass show. I was in the audience and I flipped out.I was at the Bloomington show that year too, I'll have to look for that video. I must've misread the YouTube text then...but it was on IU's field. The vid's down now, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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