TOP 10 things IN 2009 we think but dare not say!

[BozzlyB]

AGREED. You can't accurately judge percussion when you're not watching both parts of the percussion section at all times. This is why we need a box judge.

I don't think we need a box judge for percussion. At that distance you can't accurately judge technique or cleanliness, you're just looking at ensemble and there's already a judge doing it. I would, however support 100% a 2nd perc judge that is solely responsible for judging the front line. This would leave the other perc judge to be on the battery's case the whole show, which is also important. Battery's should be judged on how well they execute their entire show, not just the random sections where they throw down some fast notes for a few measures.

[Jeff Ream]

I don't think we need a box judge for percussion. At that distance you can't accurately judge technique or cleanliness, you're just looking at ensemble and there's already a judge doing it. I would, however support 100% a 2nd perc judge that is solely responsible for judging the front line. This would leave the other perc judge to be on the battery's case the whole show, which is also important. Battery's should be judged on how well they execute their entire show, not just the random sections where they throw down some fast notes for a few measures.

i would put the 2nd judge up top for perc to handle ensemble, because obviously based on shows i was at live and looked at the recaps from, ensemble balance issues...HUGE ones....werent touched by the ensemble music judge. same thing in the band world...they are afraid to touch it as often ensemble music isnt a drum guy.

yet last year at Allentown, Bluecoats pit ran very hot, and while the upstairs music number was good and high, the upstairs drum guy put em down where they should have been based on the balance issue.

the role of the field judge is to sample all sections, not camp out with them, especially since so few batteries play during the ballad.

[CBrogers]

Wow, after looking at this thread and viewing the post. I agree with somethings but disagree with others. I don't like to call out any drum corp by name and truthfully I am not a die hard fan of anyone in particular. But I believe there is something to this thread when it comes to disatisfaction. Sure there was a lot of talk about scores but the underlying isssue is are drum corps going to keep moving shows to the abstract abyss where entertainment becomes less important or will they realize their mistake? Everyone has an ego including a show designer. I think a lot of people on here would like to pull those guys out of left field and bring them a little closer to reality. There were some corps that had good shows and others well not so entertaining of a show. Now when the scores didn't reflect this people felt disappointed and frustrated. What would be a great idea is to be able to present a large check as result from fan donations to the drum corp that was voted the corp with the best show. I am sure the judges might not like it but it would be an excellent way to say thank you to a Drum Corp for doing what you do. It could also have the affect of forcing some corps to really evolve the activity to a more exciting and appealing level of performance. Really it would do just that. We can have two champions the judges champion and the Fans champion. In the end it will always be about Fan Admiration. The scores will just have to catch up. Hey I did it without mentioning any corps with negative remarks. I knew I could get it done.

[SACMellos2010]

Call me crazy but maybe we should take effect to somewhat parallel what the unbiased fan feels... you know those moments when you think... wow did you just see/hear what they did... that should be effect!!

I know where I would like to see finals in 2010..... Memorial Stadium in Bloomington, IN!!!

[highpitch_83]

i would put the 2nd judge up top for perc to handle ensemble, because obviously based on shows i was at live and looked at the recaps from, ensemble balance issues...HUGE ones....werent touched by the ensemble music judge. same thing in the band world...they are afraid to touch it as often ensemble music isnt a drum guy.

yet last year at Allentown, Bluecoats pit ran very hot, and while the upstairs music number was good and high, the upstairs drum guy put em down where they should have been based on the balance issue.

the role of the field judge is to sample all sections, not camp out with them, especially since so few batteries play during the ballad.

Perhaps the issue could be solved with some expanding the definition of what judging "Ensemble Music" entails vs. what the Perc Judge captures. Personally if the ens. music judge(s) haven't been addressing the pit balance issues all season as many have implied on here then it's a gross misjudgment and needs to be corrected. Otherwise bring back the 2nd perc judge and let them also judge the use/balance of electronics.

[Jeff Ream]

Perhaps the issue could be solved with some expanding the definition of what judging "Ensemble Music" entails vs. what the Perc Judge captures. Personally if the ens. music judge(s) haven't been addressing the pit balance issues all season as many have implied on here then it's a gross misjudgment and needs to be corrected. Otherwise bring back the 2nd perc judge and let them also judge the use/balance of electronics.

ensemble music is suppose to be all encompassing. but often it is very brass focused

[Corbin]

Carolina Crown lost because Leon May designed a less than adequate drill.

[Silver_King]

OOH! A DESIGNATED COMPLAINING THREAD!

1) BD Was boring, they had 70 visual markers out on the field, and they could sit down in them. That being said- the 30 seconds of rhapsody in blue is exempt from said observation.

2) Crown should have one, and 3rd in GE my butt! That Ending is like, oozing GE!

3) Spirit needs more hornline, less Bass guitar

4) A whole friggin' band in your pit, teal? Really?

5) Boston, less orgies on the field please.

6) Where was the GE in BD's show? SOMEONE TELL ME!

7) Cadets weren't all that entertaining to me, but I agree that they performed the heck out of a difficult program.

8) Why didn't madison place higher? That show was off the chain!

9) Glassmen passing BK=phail

10) I love the Cavaliers, PLACE HIGHER!

i dare not say

dumbest post in here . randomly picked one and thought it was funny on 5

[JamMan]

2. Good bye marching drumlines.

5. Good bye marching drum corps!

7. Will the Cavs, Cadets and others write easier shows in the future?

10. 99.05! I'll have to sit down and think about that one!

Yeah, drum corps need to stop just standing there. They should be more like a MARCHING band.

To 10: Scores don't mean anything year to year. It's all about context.

[HolyName080910]

Trying to stay on topic, and went to 12 since we let 12 corps in Finals.

1. BD was just cleaner than everyone else. 2008 was that rare occurrence where the most popular and memorable show was also the champion. That is rarely the case. I enjoyed Crown & Cadets more - and I thought their shows were more difficult, but they did not achieve all their difficulty. A 99 was ridiculous.

2. It was GREAT to see the variances in placement in captions within the top 5 - both from caption to caption, and from night to night.

3. It is absolutely ridiculous that #2 isn't the case below the top 5. PR was in no way 7th musically or 9th in GE Music. Musical show of the year in my very biased opinion, or maybe behind only SCV & Crown.

4. I sure hope PR has learned a lesson once & for all that they cannot ignore the visual element of the activity. While I do get they have less financial muscle than most of the top corps do, you can't tell me their placements the previous 4 years (not to mention the quality of the shows) havent' helped drive more revenue into the corps to pay for top notch visual design talent to match their stellar music team. Just look at the souvie lines on Saturday night before finals - the longest lines, by far, were at PR, Crown & SCV. PR can't count on that continuing unless they resume bringing the complete packages they brought from 2005-2008.

5. Don't build forced shows around a theme that isn't big enough to carry it - If you destroy your visual package to feature a story that doesn't resonate, you've shot yourself in both feet.

6. I can't stand the sound in the Oil Drum. That said, I'll keep coming back (sadly, DCI realizes this)

7. I will be very interested to see if DCI can keep selling all those $299 packages or $125 Saturday Night seats that are between the goal lines and the 25s over the next few years.

8. It took me the entire season to grasp, absorb & love all of Crown's show, but by Saturday night, I got it & I loved it. While you could take what you want out of that show (part of the genius of the design) it was totally the Wizard of Oz without slapping you in the face with the Wizard of Oz or using any of the music. Thing about it - "heartland opening & closing music", "tornado"-like transition to "another world", a "fairy" instead of Glinda, substitute Dorothy for a boy (would expect no less from Adam Sage), add in a "munchkin" like segment. I loved it, and thought it was fantastic.

9. SCV had the show most will remember for years to come. As stated in #1, that most memorable show is rarely the winner. Vanguard was all that you hope SCV to be this year - classy, beautiful, magical, and moving.

10. The volume of the amps and electronics are out of control. I don't like but don't hate them in the first place, but the volumes are way too high. No excuses with someone on the field to supposedly balance things. I've sat near enough to the judges in the stands this year to hear more than judge say - "ooh, you should add some more color from the pit/front ensemble to that" - so the problem in part is the judging community seems to be driving it. I really dislike it when corps back up almost 90% of their contra scoring with the electronic keyboard bass. Maybe for some huge impact chords, but please - stop using it as a crutch through the show.

11 - ONE GE judge should not be able to single- handly tank a corps placement and score on Saturday night due to a bias or preference against that corps - a trend that has happened for years, but one that no one seems brave enough to stop (thankfully said judge is not always on the Saturday Night panel) I can see a performance caption moving by more than a half point due to execution issues, but not a GE caption when the shows overall are fairly equal over 3 days. Just flat out wrong.

12 - DCI should frankly be applauded by keeping almost every World Class Corps going through a very challenging 2008 (gas prices) and 2009 (economy). I still don't agree with the TV decision, being in Indy for 10 years(much less an enclosed stadium) and a few other moves, but in all the organization deserves a ton of kudos for what they have managed to protect.

Harvey

Each GE judge has the same influence that any other judges do. While the GE scores count double every other caption, they double up the GE captions at bigger shows and average the two GE Vis scores and the two GE Music scores.