SCV 2009 vs Cadets 1987

[flam control]

I'm glad this topic has finally surfaced. '87 Cadets hands down...much more excitement

and extremely more difficult music and drill!

I have never been more disappointed with the level of musical score and drill as in SCV '09!...

and this comes from a long, LONG standing SCV fan from as far back as 1974! I cannot believe

the fodder that their staff must have been feeding the judges all year concerning their show.

How do you enter "box 5" when your drill design has no demand, constant slow movement, and very

few times where size of step changes? All of this music has been bastardized, and repeated themes

over and over in individual to full group exposure. I know this music well! Let's count minutes where the horn line plays tutti! Did we reach a tempo faster than 160?

Certainly not often. And hey, my middle school band can play quarter and eighth note songs, and

has played Appalachian Spring with much success! Adifferent level, yes...but hey!

But, "oh, weren't those drill sets pretty and flowing and smooth melodies gorgeous?" Well, yes! Did

they entertain us with valued GE? NO! Box 5, NO! And the guard work...oh I mean all that dancing? I have a real problem with drum corps trying to dance well on a football field if not trained in dance. My sister was a long time professional dancer...SCV's guard was a futile attempt at dance...most of which could never be seen with the wide dresses worn throughout...helping to hide body angles and moves.

I appreciate the '87 Cadets for all of the opposite reasons above...faster movement, more dificult drill, and higher GE factor. As far as guard, they were not portraying dance, as did SCV, but did

a marvelous job with entertaining the crown with much more equipment work. I understand what SCV was trying to do, and their angle...most of the audience and I disagree. We're entitled to an opinion.

I am dissapointed in the DCI Judging community in their scoring placement of such a simplistic package into such a high ranking position. I have no idea how they placed 5th. I do know if you placed a decibal meter into the audience at each corps' ending, at least one to three corps would have had a much larger crowd reaction. Have you not heard it? Bluecoats and Boston both received more applause and more reaction throughout their shows. Judges, do you understand this?

I wish to take nothing away from SCV's corps members for doing a good job musically and moving to what their staff had provided them...and mind you, due to the slow tempo and sustained voicings, SCV probably had the best resonance of anyone in that horrid stadium. And hey, if drum corps is going to have to stay at Indy for another 8 years, everyone should consider dumbing down their music and drill to accomodate this stadium.

I wonder if another corps would have done the same show with different uniforms would have even made finals. Hmmmmm.

You know how Olympic atheletes receive weighted scores for routine difficulty and execution? Why aren't those same types of music and drill considered in the same way for drum corps (especially "box 5"!)?

Disclaimer: I love drum corps, performed it, watched it, and sibling followed into it. I've watched it grow and change over the years for better and worse and back again. I know how hard all of these kids have worked throughout their season and appreciate it. I wish all the staff and judges the best in their creations and evaluations...please work on what is "BOX 5!

Ha ha....this is awesome. I'm reminded of Beavis and Butthead...."HIGHER! FASTER! BOX 5!!! BOX 5!!!! BOX 5!!! huh huh huh."

[skewerz]

For it's time, I loved Cadets but once I listened to the cd's, the sound was flat out trash. When I'm able to hear SCV 09 on a cd I will be able to make an informed comment.

I just don't understand whats so musical about drums tuned out of the range of having tone quality just so they can play faster..................tennis shoes in a dryer have as much tonal center as any DCI line today.

just remember...there's a huge difference between a cd made in 87 and one made today...

i like the sound of real snares myself...the sound that was around right around '80...bridgemen and spirit...heck, all of the snares sounded like...well, snares.

[DCIpwnstesn00bs]

I could only guess that is from pollsters who weren't born when Garfield put out their 87 show. Probably haven't even seen a video of the show and if they had, it was only for one viewing. One must really take the time to disect each show with multiple viewings before you can say flat out one is better than the other (IN THEIR OPINION). Polls that stretch 22 years of performances start with educated votes and end as a popularity contest.

sounds about right, lol, i wasnt born for garfield but i watched the show a few times and really enjoyed it more =) but thats just me lol

[CuriousMe]

Well, I obviously have a bias.....that being said I was really looking forward to SCV this year, AP is one of my favorite pieces of music. I was excited to see SCV's interpretation of The Ballet for Martha on the field. It was a beautiful show, but I just couldn't get by the fact that all of the moving prts are in the pit. I was so disappointed....I obviously wasn't expecting the same book as we played, different corps, different arrangement....but I've heard high school groups play more of the moving parts on wind instruments than SCV did.

Now, it didn't have to be an arrangement of runs or anything....but the simplification of the score was just to much....it was like the fireman came in June! Yes, their hornline sounded beautiful, the members performed the heck out of what they had....I just couldn't get past what they had.

[Abbevillekid26]

I could only guess that is from pollsters who weren't born when Garfield put out their 87 show. Probably haven't even seen a video of the show and if they had, it was only for one viewing. One must really take the time to disect each show with multiple viewings before you can say flat out one is better than the other (IN THEIR OPINION). Polls that stretch 22 years of performances start with educated votes and end as a popularity contest.

You're right I wasn't born in 87. However I have seen a video of it several times, saw SCV live this year and several times online too and just like SCV 09 better (and 87 as well but that's irrelevant.) I know it's not the same as seeing it live but even just based on fan network I like SCV better.

[flam control]

While I prefer Garfield's '87 version, there's an overlooked point here: Garfield's show was designed to win. SCV's show was designed to not be 7th.

[boxingfred]

Cadets 1987- My favorite corps playing my favorite piece of music.

Vanguard 2009- My second favorite corps playing my favorite piece of music.

The Cadets App. Spring was more dynamic. ( dissolving company front, solo dancer, Kaleidoscopic drill)

The Vanguard with the benefit of a modern color guard visually interpreted the song better. (did not like the synthesized bird sounds, should have used a bird caller)

As far as the arrangements go:

Cadets-1a

Vanguard-1b

I love them both

Edited August 27, 2009 by boxingfred

[Tusayan]

The guard was fabulous (and I understand the total concept in the writing of the guard book) but, I felt it lacking in the amount of silk usage while relying much more heavily on dance.

Dude, it was a ballet show. The guard should rely heavily on dance.

[ElSuarez]

True, but you could compare Garfield's guard to their peers at the time, and I think if you did that, you'd find them lacking. Not in the writing . . . though, for example, it was obvious that they had to have their rifle work watered down to pretty much strap work only, as I don't think there's any point where they actually release the rifles. (I seem to recall reading that they had a harder rifle book earlier in the season, but many drops later, they simplified the work to clean it up.) They were a lovely guard with lots of interpretive body work, and one of the most beautiful guard uniforms ever. But they just weren't a top-tier guard. Timing and technique were fuzzy, whereas Santa Clara's '87 guard was doing harder stuff, and doing it cleaner. Looking at the entire top 12 that year, I would put Garfield's guard in sixth place, after Madison and ahead of Star.

It would've been interesting to see what the outcome would've been if there had been a guard caption score that year.

While Garfield '87 is one of my all-time favorite shows the guard was by far the weakest section. You have to remember that they really didn't have a guard the previousl year and were basically starting from scratch. Guardwise I would have had Skyriders (12th place corps) ahead of Garfield.

[DanjrusMcRynky]

Cadets 1987- My favorite corps playing my favorite piece of music.

Vanguard 2009- My second favorite corps playing my favorite piece of music.

The Cadets App. Spring was more dynamic. ( dissolving company front, solo dancer, Kaleidoscopic drill)

The Vanguard with the benefit of a modern color guard visually interpreted the song better. (did not like the synthesized bird sounds, should have used a bird caller)

As far as the arrangements go:

Cadets-1a

Vanguard-1b

I love them both

Not synthesized holmes. They were these little metal "tweeters", if you will. Check one of their "Behind the Star" videos (cant remember which one...one of the first ones though.