Belated Prelim Review

[BUCKINGFRONCO]

if that was the case Dan, Empire and Bush and probably 50% of the corps wouldn't be thought of at all.

Disclaimer: The following are merely the opinions of a random contrabass player and in no way reflect the official position of any corps I currently or once performed with.

I believe that Dan was referring specifically to the Kilties. The hardest part of having such a proud history as a junior corps, is that some people have difficulties seperating what the corps was in the, "Old days," to what the corps is now. I think that there are many people who still kind of view the corps as a very good alumni corps that's is attempting to be competitive. Given the corp's early years as a senior corps, and initial repertoires, (largely remixes of shows from the Kilties Junior corp's heyday) it is somewhat understandable. There will always be theories on why one corps or another didn't make the night show. Some theories appear to have more credence than others, but hell eveyone is entitled to their opinion. (Hell if we didn't have some controversy or another on DCP most of us would be very bored!) 2009 is done. 2010 is around the corner. Let's just see what happens.

Edited October 21, 2009 by BUCKINGFRONCO

[Jeff Ream]

Disclaimer: The following are merely the opinions of a random contrabass player and in no way reflect the official position of any corps I currently or once performed with.

I believe that Dan was referring specifically to the Kilties. The hardest part of having such a proud history as a junior corps, is that some people have difficulties seperating what the corps was in the, "Old days," to what the corps is now. I think that there are many people who still kind of view the corps as a very good alumni corps that's is attempting to be competitive. Given the corp's early years as a senior corps, and initial repertoires, (largely remixes of shows from the Kilties Junior corp's heyday) it is somewhat understandable. There will always be theories on why one corps or another didn't make the night show. Some theories appear to have more credence than others, but hell eveyone is entitled to their opinion. (Hell if we didn't have some controversy or another on DCP most of us would be very bored!) 2009 is done. 2010 is around the corner. Let's just see what happens.

do you know that many of todays judges barely remember the Kilties as a competing field corps? Hell, I barely remember them as a competing field corps.

It's time the Kilties let that perception go, because that perception only lives in your minds ( not all of you, just those speaking up about it).

I can guarantee you right now, I could go and ask about 10 judges I know to name the last time Kilties made finals as a junior corps, and I'll bet 2 or fewer would even know.

And I only know because I just checked corpsreps.com

[LegalEagle50]

I'm not certain if all of the current roster could even name when they made finals last at DCA. That's not a knock on the corps, that is just to say it's been a while and many things have changed in that time period. Certain people make comments that make it seem that it is a conspiracy they don't make finals, good showing at prelims, bad showing, any showing.....but given how much time has passed, I think it is safe to say the judges' roster has changed many, many times since then.

[Scerpella]

I'm not certain if all of the current roster could even name when they made finals last at DCA. That's not a knock on the corps, that is just to say it's been a while and many things have changed in that time period. Certain people make comments that make it seem that it is a conspiracy they don't make finals, good showing at prelims, bad showing, any showing.....but given how much time has passed, I think it is safe to say the judges' roster has changed many, many times since then.

Please try not to put words into the mouths of people Liz, especially those that make us look like idiots. No one has claimed there is a "conspiracy". My comment regarding the Old Jr Kilties simply deals with expectations of people in DCA in general. But to Jeff I have heard enough folks wax nostalgic from the East about that great 65 or 69 Kilties which made such an impression on them. Our former program coordinator, a prominent DCA person from NY, was always telling us about the love and nostalgia many in the East have for the Kilties. Our trips out to Syracuse in 05 and 06 we had person come up to us after another talking about the great Kilties corps of yore. You have your own opinions but they are just that.

Edited October 22, 2009 by Scerpella

[Scerpella]

do you know that many of todays judges barely remember the Kilties as a competing field corps? Hell, I barely remember them as a competing field corps.

That could be because you were 9 the last time they made DCI finals. You are not representative of the DCA population Jeff.

[Fran Haring]

I think that there are many people who still kind of view the corps as a very good alumni corps that's is attempting to be competitive. Given the corp's early years as a senior corps, and initial repertoires, (largely remixes of shows from the Kilties Junior corp's heyday) it is somewhat understandable.

Please don't take this the wrong way, because I always look forward to seeing the Kilties when they make the trip East.....but IMO it was more than just the corps' repertoires in the first several years at DCA's that fueled that "alumni corps" perception... it was the overall show concept, including, quite frankly, a visual program that was virtually non-existent, including some subpar visual execution and a lack of a competitive color guard.

Also.... and I could very well be completely off-base with this, and if I am I apologize, but this was my impression..... In those early years, I got the impression that the corps didn't quite take DCA seriously.

That being said (sorry for the cliche' there).....in 2009, from my vantage point at prelims, I saw a Kilties corps that more than held its own against the rest of the corps who were battling for a finalist spot. In particular, and again IMO.... that was the best marching program, from a design and execution standpoint, that I have ever seen from the all-age version of the Kilties. From my vantage point, at about the 30-35 yard line in the press box, I was not quite sure why the Kilties didn't make the Sunday night show.... but I'm just a fan, not a judge.

Bottom line... from here on out I hope everyone can look at the Kilties and judge them for what they are now, which is a highly competitive all-age corps.... not what they were 10 years ago, or 40 years ago as a junior corps.

I am very much looking forward to the 2010 version of the Kilties... sounds like a killer repertoire!

Fran

Edited October 22, 2009 by Fran Haring

[Jeff Ream]

Please try not to put words into the mouths of people Liz, especially those that make us look like idiots. No one has claimed there is a "conspiracy". My comment regarding the Old Jr Kilties simply deals with expectations of people in DCA in general. But to Jeff I have heard enough folks wax nostalgic from the East about that great 65 or 69 Kilties which made such an impression on them. Our former program coordinator, a prominent DCA person from NY, was always telling us about the love and nostalgia many in the East have for the Kilties. Our trips out to Syracuse in 05 and 06 we had person come up to us after another talking about the great Kilties corps of yore. You have your own opinions but they are just that.

great you have shown that the FANS have a great love.

most of the judges werent paying attention to drum corps in 1969. A few weren't even born

[Jeff Ream]

That could be because you were 9 the last time they made DCI finals. You are not representative of the DCA population Jeff.

but I am closer to the judging community's age than the fan base's Dan.

[JimF-LowBari]

That could be because you were 9 the last time they made DCI finals. You are not representative of the DCA population Jeff.

Hell I'm 52 and just caught the last few times Kilties made Finals. Figure the age of anyone who saw the 60s Kilties have to be around their 60s themselves. Not a slam on you Dan but if the main part of the DCA fan base is that old then DCA really is in trouble. And personally I don't think the judges or (most) fans judge the current corps by what was done in the past. There are enough corps that have always been Sr/All-Age that have gone thru big changes too but I don't see them being judged on their history. Sun comes easily to mind in that category as they arean 70s/80s DCA Champ.

IOW - if you've been around that long then you've learned to judge a corps show by what is on the field at the moment. You can remember the past fondly but you know that doesn't mean squat when the corps steps off the line.

Edited October 22, 2009 by JimF-3rdBari

[LegalEagle50]

Please try not to put words into the mouths of people Liz, especially those that make us look like idiots. No one has claimed there is a "conspiracy". ....You have your own opinions but they are just that.

Yes, I do have my opinions, but I also can read Dan. Comments were made on FaceBook (which will not be reposted here as it would violate guidelines as I know them) and those comments were very telling of how some members personally felt. I am not trying to make you look like idiots. I saw cracks at the judges and yes, some of them read as if there was a conspiracy to keep Kilties out of finals.

You are not representative of the DCA population Jeff.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one Dan. IMO at 40 Jeff is a good representative of the DCA audience population. Marched in the 80's and 90's....My guess the average age would be somewhere in the 40-50 range.

Please don't take this the wrong way, ......but IMO it was more than just the corps' repertoires in the first several years at DCA's that fueled that "alumni corps" perception... it was the overall show concept, including, quite frankly, a visual program that was virtually non-existent, including some subpar visual execution and a lack of a competitive color guard.

Also.... and I could very well be completely off-base with this, and if I am I apologize, but this was my impression..... In those early years, I got the impression that the corps didn't quite take DCA seriously.

Perfect description of it Fran ~ no one could possibly say this any better.

Not a slam on you Dan but if the main part of the DCA fan base is that old then DCA really is in trouble. And personally I don't think the judges or (most) fans judge the current corps by what was done in the past. .........

IOW - if you've been around that long then you've learned to judge a corps show by what is on the field at the moment. You can remember the past fondly but you know that doesn't mean squat when the corps steps off the line.

First thing I thought of when I saw Dan's comment about the fan base was how would DCA survive if all of its fan are getting close to the dying off age bracket. Then I thought of everyone I saw this year at the stadium and realized how far from true it was. As far as your comments regarding judging, Jim, I agree with you 100%.