perc2100 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I agree - there is no overriding logic one way or the other. It should be a corps' decision, based on their identity, and their music selections. Those two used to go hand in hand, as recently as a decade ago, but not so much anymore. I think that is actually part of the problem when it comes to fielding a cymbal line every year - with some music it makes sense, with other styles, not so much. Exactly. If a corps has a reason for a cymbal line, a staff member who can teach it, and members willing to do it, then I'm all for it. If a corps' staff feels that a cymbal line is not a necessity, then they don't need one and that's fine with me too. Heck, if a corps decides that marching percussion is not a necessity and they ground an entire percussion section for a specific purpose/show, then I'm all for it (see Ventures in the late 80's when they won DCI Div. 2 without a battery). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 There's no doubt that WGI is more progressive. There's also no doubt that marching cymbal are more effective in WGI than DCI (the proof is in the designs; the same cats that design amazingly for cymbal lines in WGI don't all have cymbal lines in DCI).The only thing, IMO, that has made DCI SLIGHTLY more progressive than DCI in the recent past is WGI refusing to let staff members run the sound board, while DCI approved of that several years ago. I know, that's another argument, but it's the only time I can EVER recall WGI being behind DCI in terms of progressive rule changes. and WGI has better balance...imagine that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 What exactly do I need to know? I know they had cymbal lines. I know they had GREAT cymbal lines. But apparently, what they write these days doesn't really require a cymbal line because parts can be taken care of in the pit, even though they have "no idea of technique or how to produce many different sounds..." It's funny. I used to think a lot of people in the pit had some sort of idea of musicality and technique and were music majors and are taught how to produce sounds with great technique. But hey, what do I know. I played a brass instrument. Either way, I appreciated how passionately some people feel about cymbal lines back in the day. The fact is, there are less of them these days and there HAS to be a valid reason for it. So what would it be? Educate me. Oh, and by the way, I didn't just march Cadets. I did march Crossmen and Surf and at the time I marched those two corps, they did have cymbal lines. one question since you keep saying those sounds are produced in the pit...show me a pit please, that produces the sounds a marching like can produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 You know, honestly....I dont think i've ever heard a marching cymbal line. I'm sure they're audible, but ive never really noticed all this wonderful nuance people keep talking about. I am aware it exists, but to me, marching cymbals are more visual than musical. Also, the fact that most pits dont make the same effects is a choice, not a handicap. Is their any reason a pit writer couldnt take a few of his 16 players and have them play those parts??...no, but if todays writers dont want to write these complex cymbal parts, they arent going to write them either way, whether its on the field or in the pit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 one question since you keep saying those sounds are produced in the pit...show me a pit please, that produces the sounds a marching like can produce. I think that would depend on the writing of the parts. If the percussion writer felt the need to write cymbal parts that would sound distinctly differently from the field, I'm sure he/she would write them, like SCV does. I tend to think that the corps who don't have cymbal players on the field felt that the parts could be achieved from the pit. I could be wrong, but it's just what I am thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake13 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 How many other people find this entertaining??? A whole topic with people trying to win their opinion on plates! Not hornlines, drum lines, or guards!!! i love drum corps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 How many other people find this entertaining??? A whole topic with people trying to win their opinion on plates! Not hornlines, drum lines, or guards!!! i love drum corps Lmfao, you may change this into an entirely different argument if you're not careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Actually, the topic was about plate lines copying moves from eachother, not about their existence. C'est la vie on DCP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kstein Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Hey, I just waved my arms in front of a few corps. I'm not a percussion expert either. However, I know that the really good cymbal lines changed grips, techniques, angles and other things my silly DM brain can't comprehend to make many kinds of sounds. And they practiced this art/skill for 14 hours a day...or whatever the typical drum corps rehearsal schedule is. I don't care if a mallet player in the pit is a percussion major in the finest program in the country; my guess is they spend minimal time on cymbals and the ways they can be played. Certainly, they don't come close to the hours and the attention to detail the great cymbal lines do. So call me a dinosaur. I want to hear the best possible sounds I can hear on a field, and that includes a dedicated cymbal line with top notch writing. Best I ever heard was Thom Hannum, and last I heard he's still arranging for drum corps (in fact a certain bunch of guys in Madison), so I would like to see his talent on display to its best advantage, and not played as an afterthought by somebody in the pit. (No disrespect to my sandal wearing brethren.) The visuals can be a great addition too, but that's not my main concern. I do think that what Madison has opted to do to their returning cymbal players by eliminating their roles - especially in this era of 150 members - is also a lousy call. Although heaven forbid one should criticize anything Madison does in this environment... Cheers! Karen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 and WGI has better balance...imagine that Ha! Can't argue with that Perhaps we can look at it as: There are no horns in WGI There are horns in DCI There is better balance in WGI than DCI. There is better balance in WGI because there are no horns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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