2000Cadet Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 OOHHHH MMMY LLOORRRDD. What is it with you guys and making this garbage up about people in the pit ONLY hitting a cymbal with a stick. I've seen in literally a DOZEN times in this thread, and it looks more ignorant every time. Do you really think thats all they do in the pit is hit cymbals with a stick, like poorly trained monkeys??? They can actually pick them up and hit them together you know... I realize it isnt the same amount of nuance and expression as a field line, but stop trying to make things up, its unbecoming...yeah....sorry, but seeing that for the umpteenth time really got on my nerves. Anyway, i wasnt the one to call for the extinction of cymbal lines, and i've said several times that I enjoy them when theyre there. And yes, the synth DOES have to sound like a tuba to replace a tuba, otherwise your example makes no sense. Anyway, my weekend sucked before you messed with it, so no worries You know I was thinking the same thing. Maybe that's why some people thought the marching cymbal parts could not be covered in the pit; maybe that's why some people think hornplayers don't know what they're talking about when we say cymbal parts are covered in the pit. They do use crash cymbals in the pit as well, at least that's what I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTarka Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I just want to quickly explain to those of you who don't understand the argument about why field cymbal parts cannot/are not covered by pit cymbal players: *Quick disclaimer: This is just to help explain why many ppl feel field cymbal parts are not covered by pit cymbal parts... I'm not trying to argue with anybody just state why this is... #1) Pit cymbal players are taught ORCHESTRAL cymbal technique, not marching cymbal technique. These are 2 VERY different things. In marching cymbal technique we typically use any where from 10 to 15 or more different sounds (taps, zings, hi hat, chokes, sucs, p-soups, smashes, several different crashes, scrapes, etc., just to name a Few) In Orchestral technique, there are maybe 3 to 4 different basic sounds used/taught (basic crashes, hi hat, rolls, ride cymbal) #2) Field cymbal writing then is VERY different from pit cymbal writing. Marching cymbal lines are similar to bass drum lines in that they have split runs (8th, 16th, triplets). Since pit cymbals are based off of Orchestral technique so is their writing. Also, typically, cymbal techs help write field cymbal parts and pit arrangers write cymbal parts for the pit. Hence why you do not hear those kind of field cymbal sounds or split parts in the pit. Maybe if more cymbal players wrote pit books there would be more field cymbal sounds in there. I hope this clarifies why some cymbal players are saying that pit cymbals do not replace field cymbals. ALSO, this is not to discredit pit cymbal players! All of the pit members I have met in my life have all been taught proper orchestral cymbal technique and play crash and suspended cymbals well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 It's amazing to see the paradigm shift (or tipping point) ... I remember when it was an outrage when they started putting cymbals in the pit. "Oh my God, it'll kill the whole need for a cymbal line!" Now they're outraged that there are cymbals on the field. Having cymbals on the field isn't just some new SCV gimmick.... everybody USED to have cymbals. I'd like to hear from the guys (and gals) who started on cymbals, and then moved to Bass, Tenor, Snare, and ultimately to "DCP Contributor" the best and most educational 3 weeks of instructing in drum corps I had were the 3 weeks I worked with Bucs cymbals in 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I WAS WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO BRING THIS UP!!! What is the point of having SEVEN cymbals on the field??? You could hardly hear them at all during their show this year. SEVEN is generally how big a snare line is in open class. Why put these kids' hopes up if there is no cymbal line in Blue Devils? It makes no sense to me. Four to five cymbals is alright but SEVEN, come on guys...it's pointless. well, it is a feeder corps. maybe they are starting the kids out there. ya know, because they are a feeder corps, there may be more goals than just to win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I just want to quickly explain to those of you who don't understand the argument about why field cymbal parts cannot/are not covered by pit cymbal players:*Quick disclaimer: This is just to help explain why many ppl feel field cymbal parts are not covered by pit cymbal parts... I'm not trying to argue with anybody just state why this is... #1) Pit cymbal players are taught ORCHESTRAL cymbal technique, not marching cymbal technique. These are 2 VERY different things. In marching cymbal technique we typically use any where from 10 to 15 or more different sounds (taps, zings, hi hat, chokes, sucs, p-soups, smashes, several different crashes, scrapes, etc., just to name a Few) In Orchestral technique, there are maybe 3 to 4 different basic sounds used/taught (basic crashes, hi hat, rolls, ride cymbal) #2) Field cymbal writing then is VERY different from pit cymbal writing. Marching cymbal lines are similar to bass drum lines in that they have split runs (8th, 16th, triplets). Since pit cymbals are based off of Orchestral technique so is their writing. Also, typically, cymbal techs help write field cymbal parts and pit arrangers write cymbal parts for the pit. Hence why you do not hear those kind of field cymbal sounds or split parts in the pit. Maybe if more cymbal players wrote pit books there would be more field cymbal sounds in there. I hope this clarifies why some cymbal players are saying that pit cymbals do not replace field cymbals. ALSO, this is not to discredit pit cymbal players! All of the pit members I have met in my life have all been taught proper orchestral cymbal technique and play crash and suspended cymbals well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 If percussion writers wanted a complex cymbal part, it could still be done in the pit....but they dont, and so it isnt. By all means, complain about cymbals being gone, and I might even agree with you. I too think its silly that a corps cant find a spot for 4 people out of 150 to continue a great tradition. BUT...dont go trying to justify your opinion with silly logic. It doesnt help. Not only that, but you would think that 9/10 times the staging would be optimal to put those sound effects in the pit where they would literally be front and center, as opposed to a marching line that would be all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84skyrydr Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 (edited) WOW, 13 pages and still going. All there was, was a simple request. How could that simple request turn into a 14 page battle on who covers this with what sound, etc. Mods please close this. It wasn't meant to be what it turned into by our friendly horn line members. It was merely a request of todays cymbal lines. That is all. END IT. Edited October 25, 2009 by 84skyrydr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAV Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 You know I was thinking the same thing. Maybe that's why some people thought the marching cymbal parts could not be covered in the pit; maybe that's why some people think hornplayers don't know what they're talking about when we say cymbal parts are covered in the pit. They do use crash cymbals in the pit as well, at least that's what I thought. Yes, they have crash cymbals in the pit...but that doesn't mean they know what to do with them. j/k BTW - I was very pleased with the orchestral technique displayed by Phantom this year. The pit folks actually seemed to enjoy playing the cymbals, too. Mav...preferring her cymbals on the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielle Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Thread closed at the request of the topic author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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