perc2100 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I think its funny that each side is trying to win the argument by making generalizations about the other. No - cymbal lines dont just play whole notes on the field, and they arent archaic and useless. And to the rest of you, NO, cymbals in the pit arent just hanging on a stand for silly mallet players to hit once in a while. Most musicians in the pit arent 'mallet majors' back in college - they are percusion majors. That includes being able to play cymbals properly, one would think. Is it the same as a 4-5 person cymbal line? no, but you arent convincing anybody by trying to characterize cymbal playing in the pit as this neanderthal activity that is drastically inferior to the alternative. DCP use generalization to prove a personal bias = factual?! I'm shocked!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 You're right, the Garfield cymbal lines of the 80's were incredible.However, that was the 1980's, and we're now 25 years past your favorite line. The current trends/styles in DCI do not demand a cymbal line. I would rather have designers NOT have a cymbal line than just keep one because alumni demand it and do things half ###ed. Designers have realized that cutting cymbals could add more to the pit, horn line, or color guard (or battery), where the contribution of said members would more than likely have more of an impact than cymbals. Yes, cymbals are great, and I love to watch a good cymbal line. By now-a-days there is not a huge need for them and I have no problem with corps not fielding cymbal lines. Crack all of the rediculous arguments about grounding battery drums, or doing away with sabers, etc. but the fact is that cymbal lines are rare in modern drum corps because their presence does not have as big of an impact (with the judges) as other sections. Now that membership numbers are larger, I thought maybe more groups would add a cymbal line back but I guess designers didn't deem it a priority. Oh, and as for the impact of cymbals in WGI vs. DCI: WGI is performed in small indoor venues while drum corps is performed in huge football stadiums. On a basketball floor we're talking about a maximum size of 50x80 feet. A football field is 160x360 feet. A HUGE difference where sound and visual focus is concerned. yet DCI keeps stealing from WGI, so which is more progressive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piper Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Why not just throw everyone into the pit? That way we can have a very boring concert while clapping with gloved hands and forget about Drum Corps altogether. Just don't forget your Tux, Ball Gown and Opera Glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 (edited) Why not just throw everyone into the pit? That way we can have a very boring concert while clapping with gloved hands and forget about Drum Corps altogether. Just don't forget your Tux, Ball Gown and Opera Glasses. yawn....this again? Just because people think some things belong in the pit, doesnt mean those people think all things belong in the pit. The same as some people are against certain new instrumentation in dci, but not against all new instrumentation. Its really pretty simple....but hey, continue with your exaggerations if it makes you feel better. You know what it wont do though? Edited October 22, 2009 by euponitone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 The point is, it's silly to say that a particular instrument belongs in the pit when technically everything out there has a non-marching counterpart; indeed, the only reason the marching versions of horns and drums were built is because it's a pain to carry around the concert version (and yes, I know the history of bugles, so please spare the history lecture to someone who's given it many times; that's not my point). Cymbals don't "belong" in one place or another any more than any other instrument does; it's a matter of preference. I don't have ties either way, but it's a little ridiculous for people to get the idea that eschewing cymbal lines is somehow the "progressive" thing to do when the same argument can be applied to everything else on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piper Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 yawn....this again? Just because people think some things belong in the pit, doesnt mean those people think all things belong in the pit. The same as some people are against certain new instrumentation in dci, but not against all new instrumentation. Its really pretty simple....but hey, continue with your exaggerations if it makes you feel better. You know what it wont do though? Hitting a cymbal with a stick is mere childs play to a good rudimental drummer, so maybe you're right. They should be in the pit, but I still enjoy the "flash and clash" of a batteries cymbal line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 The point is, it's silly to say that a particular instrument belongs in the pit when technically everything out there has a non-marching counterpart; indeed, the only reason the marching versions of horns and drums were built is because it's a pain to carry around the concert version (and yes, I know the history of bugles, so please spare the history lecture to someone who's given it many times; that's not my point). Cymbals don't "belong" in one place or another any more than any other instrument does; it's a matter of preference. I don't have ties either way, but it's a little ridiculous for people to get the idea that eschewing cymbal lines is somehow the "progressive" thing to do when the same argument can be applied to everything else on the field. I agree - there is no overriding logic one way or the other. It should be a corps' decision, based on their identity, and their music selections. Those two used to go hand in hand, as recently as a decade ago, but not so much anymore. I think that is actually part of the problem when it comes to fielding a cymbal line every year - with some music it makes sense, with other styles, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 yet DCI keeps stealing from WGI, so which is more progressive? There's no doubt that WGI is more progressive. There's also no doubt that marching cymbal are more effective in WGI than DCI (the proof is in the designs; the same cats that design amazingly for cymbal lines in WGI don't all have cymbal lines in DCI). The only thing, IMO, that has made DCI SLIGHTLY more progressive than DCI in the recent past is WGI refusing to let staff members run the sound board, while DCI approved of that several years ago. I know, that's another argument, but it's the only time I can EVER recall WGI being behind DCI in terms of progressive rule changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 yawn....this again? Just because people think some things belong in the pit, doesnt mean those people think all things belong in the pit. The same as some people are against certain new instrumentation in dci, but not against all new instrumentation. Its really pretty simple....but hey, continue with your exaggerations if it makes you feel better. You know what it wont do though? Heck, we should just put the entire horn line in a concert formation on chairs and... never mind we already did that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 You need to know your own corps' history a bit better. Check out the early to mid 80's cymbal lines. Gorgeous, demanding writing beautifully executed from by a very talented group of musicians. Sounds you'll NEVER hear from the pit, because most of the "cymbal playing" that goes on there is from a bunch of mallet players who pick up cymbals when told and smack them together with no idea of technique or how to produce many, many different sounds from the same set of plates. Additionally, Zingali used that group masterfully to connect the drill from the horn line to the drum line at many, many times. They kept the visuals to a minimum, but they were very effective when used. Listen and watch the beginning of Candide. The entire corps is taking the tempo from the cymbal player. The corps plays so much better when the "pulse" comes from the field, and not the front. But my favorite playing by that group is still 84. An amazing book played flawlessly. What exactly do I need to know? I know they had cymbal lines. I know they had GREAT cymbal lines. But apparently, what they write these days doesn't really require a cymbal line because parts can be taken care of in the pit, even though they have "no idea of technique or how to produce many different sounds..." It's funny. I used to think a lot of people in the pit had some sort of idea of musicality and technique and were music majors and are taught how to produce sounds with great technique. But hey, what do I know. I played a brass instrument. Either way, I appreciated how passionately some people feel about cymbal lines back in the day. The fact is, there are less of them these days and there HAS to be a valid reason for it. So what would it be? Educate me. Oh, and by the way, I didn't just march Cadets. I did march Crossmen and Surf and at the time I marched those two corps, they did have cymbal lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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